PL's Reimbursement Policy

[Mangala]

So Ive been reading the PL thread on Kugu - yes reading kugu!.

Im in love with their reimbursement policy or lack of:

No not really, FC's get reimbursed, but other than that we found the reimbursement made people lazy and slack, because it wasn't their money they were losing, it was the alliance, so that shit got killed a long time ago. At this stage, we reimburse supercaps (yes all those titans we're literally reimbursed that night) and a few special cases for fleet ops. That said, we don't pay for hictors, dictors, logi's, command ships or dreads at all.

Re a question on reimbursing logis:

Theres nothing to reimburse, at the start of an op all the guardian pilots ask for a guardian, which some director then hands them, fully fit, they fly it, if it dies they get paid to fly it (insurance payout), if it doesn't, they give it back at the end of the op. (btw that also helps weed out special snow flakes that think their guardian might perform better if they changed the fit in someNO MOTHERFUCKER FLY IT LIKE IT IS OR I'LL STICK IT UP YOUR ASS).

Out of curiosity, how does the average PL grunt make money if they PVP a lot and don't get reimbursed?

Well, for a time, each corp had a wormhole corp with a wormhole op set up, the snigg hole for example pulled in about 65 billion for the 12-15 guys in it over about 90 days.

Other times we're attacking somebody that has ratting upgrades 5, if your not going to come out and fight us, we might as well use your space.

We usually live in NPC space, so we've almost always got access to a LVL 4 agent of some party or another.

And, we also have the old fashioned way: We scam it. One guy in PL alone has scammed about 70 billion in the past 4 months.

EDIT: Forgot about what carlton said, tech moons in PL are maintained by the average guy in PL, they pay a good chunk of the moon money to the alliance, since we'll be the ones coming to defend it, but we also get a decent personal chunk. I held mine in Venal for almost 90 days, it fell yesterday in MC6, pretty sure I milked it for almost 14 bil total, and from that I paid my tax.

General stuff from the same thread on this:

Admittedly, with the proportion of really old players in PL there is a lot of old isk that has just accumulated over the years and more than pays for the older guys to pvp.

That being said, it's not hard for newer scrubs like myself to make more than enough isk to keep my hangar filled with pvp ships consistently.

First off, it helps that I don't lose many ships. Of those ships that I lose, most are free (bombers, dictors, logi). There are arguments to be made for what should be reimbursable/provided for free, but I think the current system (that Grath described) works well to allow PLers to maximize their pvp time.

If we're in a region where we take some heeb-gold moons, they're up for grabs for whoever wants to run them (unlike most other alliances that I know of). If you have a tower you want to plop down (and it's USTZ so COVEN aren't there before you), you do so.

Also, I'm not sure how many of the people with alts in big spaceholding alliances do this, but I take full advantage of my alt in the NC. If I need to jew up some extra isk for some reason, I'll run some sanctums in the fully jew-upgraded space.

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Summary is:

No reimbursement (of anything under SC level it seems), you fly your own shit like the rest of the guys do as you want shit to die faster than your mates. You fit the same as its tried and tested etc. Certain ships are loaners, that you profit from if they die, but otherwise you give them back when shit is over for others to use at another point.

[Mangala]

This isnt me saying MAADI shouldnt have one, but it is me saying Id rather model on it on the Pl one than "insert random big alliance here" one. 

[peo]

Sounds good enough in principle.
Especially since most fleets nowadays are drakes anyways

But I kinda like the idea of subsidized ship purchased from corp we have as well. Given that the effort to make ships isn't very large and it saves people a bit of cash to pew with but that is my opinion.

However It could be an idea to use the logi/hic/dictor thing? buy a few and fit for pewpew and loan out to members when we go pvping?

[peo]

Well me and mangala talked a bit about this the other day (yesterday I think...) and since we have decent amounts of cash in the ship replacement wallet we decided to get 2 guardians for corp as loaners. Similar terms as the PL idea.
Will arrive when i've bought them and well the next month of fuel as well

[Mangala]

But I kinda like the idea of subsidized ship purchased from corp we have as well. Given that the effort to make ships isn't very large and it saves people a bit of cash to pew with but that is my opinion.

Tbh, I'll support subsidised caps for a short while, then I'd prefer to move caps onto the same program as Logi's (see below), but nothing else.  No point given how cheap most ships are at subcap level and also detracts from the possible shooty and being one of those corps that "we do indy and mine and pvp" just doesnt really work in the large scheme of things.  Its one or the other with ties to corps that do what we dont etc and vice versa.

However It could be an idea to use the logi/hic/dictor thing? buy a few and fit for pewpew and loan out to members when we go pvping?

Logis yeah - dictors are cheap enough for anyone to be able to afford them (HICs are really used by folks wanting to keep a cap pinned as they arent as soft as a dictor).  Maybe supply the bubbles  And on the subject of Logis. Logi V or MAADI wont lend please.  Also no point lending logis out for small gang shit (ie 10/12 or under as its giving up deeps and in that size fights, deeps>all (unless some fuck brings a falcon!)), keep them for larger stuff with more logis able to take up an epic and full on logi chain.

[Warcold]

new idea:
rule one blablabla
rule two blablablah
rule >2: blablahblahbla

*confused*

old ship program out of the window now, or?

[Mangala]

new idea:
rule one blablabla
rule two blablablah
rule >2: blablahblahbla

*confused*

old ship program out of the window now, or?

Up to guys really - I mean I only raised this as I liked it as an alternate to ours (Cheaper to run in the long term, less of hassle for the brass, no need to mine or build etc etc).

Im good with whatever you all decide though as its not like Id use the programs whichever we ran.

[Rexorr]

I vote for Easy.

[Warcold]

Also no point lending logis out for small gang shit

I vote for old system.

[peo]

Since I run it I'll say how it will be (pulling rank on mangs ) well not really but here are my 10 isk on the matter.

1. If we move to 00 and become renters with nerf in aaa. Our end goal isn't to be renters its to be fully fledged alliance members of the holding alliance.

2. What ships are by far the most wanted in the fleets? Logistics and hics (and possibly t3 boosting cruisers but anyway)

So if we are to make some kind of mark there then being able to field logis is one of the best (in my opinion). Which means a greater chance of us getting to be seen as valuable and easier to get forward.

However, a lot are returning (i hope) from hiatus and might not have extensive wallets (i know I dont) so the old system means people can afford to pvp as well. So for now I think both systems should complement each other. The replacement system hasn't exactly been used much at all anyways.

If we get to 00 and people get more money that might not matter and the system could change.

And sorry mang but the demand for logi v and large fleets is a bit difficult given our small size. but you are ofc right that for small gang stuff more dps is usually better (or a dictor if in 00)

[Mangala]

Logi V makes the ships amazing, and able to do more on less, thats why I feel we need logi folks to have that, the per level jump of the various logi ship bonii are too good to miss out on that final level of the ship skill.

I know Logi V will come for people, so i can get behind not taking it that far at the off

[peo]

I understand fully the motivation and will do it for hrod. But as said, I think having logis even at lvl4 is better than not at all

[Warcold]

If we become part of a (n effective) larger collective I back Mang too. But as it is now in MAADI, or even BC 12+ gangs are rare if not non-existent, so for now I'd vote against this now system.
If things change, things change.