Author Topic: New dev-blog about sov  (Read 24315 times)

Offline peo

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New dev-blog about sov
« on: September 09, 2009, 01:19:46 PM »
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=691
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"Do not fear change, embrace it."

This blog is the first in a series which will focus on giving you a glimpse into some of the big features of our next expansion, Dominion.  In this one, we want to give you a high level overview of how we plan to change the sovereignty mechanic.  Subsequent blogs will detail things such as the theories behind some of these new concepts and, eventually, the actual mechanics as well as a few other key bits we feel directly affect the massive sandbox of null-sec game play in EVE.  For now though, let's get started.

Out with the old...

In the beginning, there was no sovereignty... then there were starbases.  Intended to be ‘homes' of a sort for corporation or alliance members, or even a lone miner in deep space, these venerable structures have since been pressed into a multitude of roles for which their initial design was never intended.  Their link to attaining control of star systems is something which we will move away from in Dominion.  So now comes the words which so many have longed to hear:

Sovereignty will no longer be tied directly to starbases.

This decision was an obvious one, as there is no one thing that causes more consternation amongst players than the seemingly endless task of shooting towers.  Once the choice to do this was made, we then went ahead and pretty much scrapped the entire current system and started to build a new one from the ground up.  Literally years of forum posts, player experience and feedback from the CSM contributed to what was a long, arduous process.  What has emerged is a much leaner and infinitely more expandable system which we can continually evolve over time.

The thoughts and theories behind this process will be detailed soon in a following blog, but I'm sure you're ready for some actual information.

Planting the Flag

There are no sov ‘levels' anymore; you either have sovereignty or you do not.  The mechanic for claiming a star system will be much more simplified and symbolic.  You will plant your ‘flag' in the form of a new claiming module and it will sync up with the traditional ‘borders' of a star system, namely the stargates.  The exact mechanics of how this works and why will be explained later, as we are still in the process of balancing the system, however we can tell you one of the more important bits.

Upkeep

Who makes sure all those stargates in 0.0 continue to run?  Who pays the bills to the crews and funds essential services to ensure there are no breakdowns?  When Dominion is released, the answer is simple - if you want to control the space accessed by these stargates, you will be responsible for their monthly maintenance and upkeep.  The current design calls for this to be a simple ISK transaction, representative of things like duct tape for reactor maintenance, Amarrios breakfast cereal and other important stuff.

The other major factor is the more space you spread your ‘Dominion' across, the more expensive it will become to maintain your stargate network.  We do not want to see alliances holding space simply for the sake of holding it or just making their color on the map bigger.  We want to see alliances more properly utilizing their space and providing more places for their members to generate income.  In order to facilitate that, we are going to let you do some really cool stuff!

Home Improvement

One issue that we intend to specifically address is that of ‘infrastructure'.  This is a word you are going to hear a lot more of in the months and years to come.  Essentially, we are going to give you the tools to improve the space you hold.  There will be many ways you can do this, but they will all fall under one of three categories: Military, Economic and Industrial.  These are not set ‘paths' that you can follow, simply a classification of daily activities that take place in EVE.

The idea is that some areas of space are obviously considered of less worth than others and always have been.  This is going to change.  YOU are going to change it.  Through the investment of time, money and effort at all levels, an alliance will be able to directly affect the value of and develop the space they hold.  This will consist of things as simple as investing in improvements that allow your members to discover new riches in systems long thought barren and useless.  The resources were always ‘out there', hidden or out of sight, and now you will have the tools to access them.  Other developmental areas will concern the expansion and efficiency of your industrial base. 

In essence, you are going to be able to make your space more attractive to both your current alliance members and also smaller entities that might be looking for incentives to take their first steps out of Empire.  The goal is to provide incentives for you and your allies to not have to spread out so much in order to provide reasonable rewards for your pilots.

I want to blow *%#$ up!

No matter what happens, there will always be important things to shoot.  The key is finding a balance between allowing smaller gangs of raiders to disrupt the day to day operations of your space against requiring massive battleship and capital fleets to actually remove you from the same space.  Conquest of space in Dominion will differ greatly from what exists currently, as will the ability of roaming gangs to cause an ‘AFK Empire' no end of frustration.

Just as raiders will be presented new opportunities to create havoc, aggressors intent on all out conquest will have to carefully weigh their plans and make decisions on what and where to attack first.  Strategies that work in one system may completely fail in the next.  Defenders of space in Dominion will have new ways of defending their space as well.  These tools will not replace a proper defense force but they will provide new and exciting options which ensure that not every fight is the same and will reward investment in military infrastructure.

Dominion Tools

Tying all of this together will be a feature we are tentatively calling the "Sovereignty Dashboard" (cooler name pending).  Depending on your level of access in a corp or alliance, you will be able to use this new feature to get up-to-the-moment information on what is happening in a given system of space that your alliance controls.  You will be able to see where the efforts of your alliance are going, what areas of space are being developed and how you as a member, director or executor might help.  This is just an overview of basic functionality.  This feature may be expanded upon and you can expect more details soon.

Iteration & The Future

One very important point to take away from this blog is that everything described here is only the beginning.  One of the mandates that we've followed in our recent development cycles is that any new features we introduce be open ended enough to allow for future development and improvement.  The wormholes of Apocrypha are a prime example of this in that who knows what else might be lurking in the darkness of wormhole space?  Likewise, while we felt that the old sov system was at an evolutionary dead end, with no ability to properly expand upon it, the new one we plan to introduce in Dominion is specifically aimed at allowing us to continually tweak it and introduce new content.

As an example of this philosophy, one feature which we plan to implement early next year as a direct follow-up to the new Sovereignty system is the introduction of Treaties.  Without going into too much detail, Treaties will be a fully functional mechanic that formalizes many of the agreements already in game.  The plan is to give alliances the tools to ‘rent' out areas of their space to other alliances or corporations, create formal military treaties and establish diplomatic boundaries with regard to your alliance interests.

As you can see, we are not doing this by half measures.  The sandbox is about to get bigger and badder than ever.  This is EVE Online - Dominion.

-    CCP Abathur

In general it seems to be good.
Removing the poses as sov tools and not just moving them to planets which would leave the same non-working mechanic at a slightly smaller scale.
Possibility to improve space so that holding vast stretches just to have income for all your members isn't worthwhile.
Increasing costs with larger space, which was linear earlier and my guess is that it will be exponential when done. However the time needed to maintain space will probably be less in the future as it is plain iskies to the stargate which probably will be in the form of bills rather than 8 different fuels to X number of poses. Less time spent fueling which ofc is good but might skew the "passive/active" issues even further.

However, unless the improvements include the possibility to get "passive" income of the same level as good moons I fear little will change. Bad space will still be bad and the big boys with r64's will still rule everything.
Hopefully the improvements might make it possible to have a small alliance claim and keep 2-3 systems and improve the shit out of those so you get good income to have fun with.

Hopefully it will open up interesting opportunities for people like us :)

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 02:36:25 PM »
The home improvement thing looks interesting.  I cant helped feeling though that we are "running out" of space in Eve in the sense that the big and wealthy will stay big and wealthy and the little guy will always have to be a pet.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 02:37:58 PM by Jeremiah »

Offline peo

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 02:54:22 PM »
The home improvement thing looks interesting.  I cant helped feeling though that we are "running out" of space in Eve in the sense that the big and wealthy will stay big and wealthy and the little guy will always have to be a pet.

Possibly, it depends on how expensive it is to hold space and the difference in income potential.
Will probably also lead to "alt alliances" for example "goonswarm1" "goonswarm2" etc.
But what I see this doing is making it possible to expand 0.0 so that there might be space for the smaller entities which the larger might not bother with making it possible to make alliances and break the monopoly of power that the goon blob and AAA blob has.

Offline Warcold

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 02:54:51 PM »
A possible workaround to the exponential system may be that big alliances will split up in smaller alliances and still take big stretches of space, while keeping the maintenance low...
All in all though, it does seem to have good potential, also because they will be able to tweak and expand more. I expect troubles in the beginning (as trouble seems to be an innate characteristic of beginnings), but have high hopes for the developments themselves.
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline peo

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 03:01:40 PM »
A possible workaround to the exponential system may be that big alliances will split up in smaller alliances and still take big stretches of space, while keeping the maintenance low...
All in all though, it does seem to have good potential, also because they will be able to tweak and expand more. I expect troubles in the beginning (as trouble seems to be an innate characteristic of beginnings), but have high hopes for the developments themselves.

Yes.
People have mentioned it. Very difficult to know from the little we've been told.

Offline Mangala

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 03:04:46 PM »
Im in love with the ideas espoused in the Blog.  Now to read all the EVEO comments :)
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Offline Mangala

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 03:09:06 PM »
Quote
The idea is that some areas of space are obviously considered of less worth than others and always have been. This is going to change. YOU are going to change it. Through the investment of time, money and effort at all levels, an alliance will be able to directly affect the value of and develop the space they hold. This will consist of things as simple as investing in improvements that allow your members to discover new riches in systems long thought barren and useless. The resources were always ‘out there', hidden or out of sight, and now you will have the tools to access them. Other developmental areas will concern the expansion and efficiency of your industrial base.

Boost CVA? ;)

Given their space is pants but their current infrastructure is very well put together (most outposts of any region iirc) and levels of activity in the space are high at all times (both reds and blues!).
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Offline peo

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 03:13:05 PM »
Probably.
I just hope the upgrades aren't linear.
"good system now"---"super system later"
"bad system now"---"good system later"

Which there of course (regardless of ccps claim to be looking into moon goo) is a likely chain of events.
But this comes from my deep hate for the idiocy of passive income on that level.

Offline Mangala

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 04:11:08 PM »
Random thought - if PL continue to rent Fountain out, and renters need to be in GPC, then GPC is the ones who'd get sov under the new rules?
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Offline peo

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 04:12:35 PM »
Random thought - if PL continue to rent Fountain out, and renters need to be in GPC, then GPC is the ones who'd get sov under the new rules?

Yup

Seems Mazz might have spilled some beans ;) (as I would suspect)

Offline Warcold

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 05:14:22 PM »
uhm? that so? sov can be acquired by PL and can then rented out to GPC, right?
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

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The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline Mangala

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 05:15:23 PM »
uhm? that so? sov can be acquired by PL and can then rented out to GPC, right?

Right now yes - but under the new system as part of the way sov is calculated any activity by GPC members would count towards GPC getting sov...
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Offline Warcold

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 05:19:52 PM »
Quote
As an example of this philosophy, one feature which we plan to implement early next year as a direct follow-up to the new Sovereignty system is the introduction of Treaties.  Without going into too much detail, Treaties will be a fully functional mechanic that formalizes many of the agreements already in game.  The plan is to give alliances the tools to ‘rent' out areas of their space to other alliances or corporations, create formal military treaties and establish diplomatic boundaries with regard to your alliance interests.

right??


the way you say it will be will be very tricky, cause then you will have to constantly check if your renters ain't doing more than you, that would be odd and annoying.
also, it would mean you are happily missioning away somewhere and you suddenly have to pay 100M for the stargates maintenance (apparently sov has switched to you)  :-\
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166

Offline Mangala

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 05:21:00 PM »
Quote
As an example of this philosophy, one feature which we plan to implement early next year as a direct follow-up to the new Sovereignty system is the introduction of Treaties.  Without going into too much detail, Treaties will be a fully functional mechanic that formalizes many of the agreements already in game.  The plan is to give alliances the tools to ‘rent' out areas of their space to other alliances or corporations, create formal military treaties and establish diplomatic boundaries with regard to your alliance interests.

right??


the way you say it will be will be very tricky, cause then you will have to constantly check if your renters ain't doing more than you, that would be odd and annoying.
also, it would mean you are happily missioning away somewhere and you suddenly have to pay 100M for the stargates maintenance (apparently sov has switched to you)  :-\

Now it makes sense (I fail at remembering what I have read :D).
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Offline Rexorr

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Re: New dev-blog about sov
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 01:16:50 AM »
uhm? that so? sov can be acquired by PL and can then rented out to GPC, right?

Right now yes - but under the new system as part of the way sov is calculated any activity by GPC members would count towards GPC getting sov...


No As I read it the Sov holding Alliance will control the "Claiming Module" and that will give them SOV.

Quote
You will plant your ‘flag' in the form of a new claiming module and it will sync up with the traditional ‘borders' of a star system, namely the stargates.

 Where did you read that activity in the system will determine Sov?
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