Author Topic: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff  (Read 47778 times)

Offline peo

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Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« on: March 18, 2010, 04:23:28 PM »
Well, thought I make a post about it to give people a heads up about the planning I have for he future moongoo stuff.

First the what I want to do with it is to eventually get a income per month large enough to pay for limited capital losses. Around three per month (dreads preferably) should be adequate for our needs in the medium term.
This ofc depends on the moons I can find and reactions we can do.

I'm also not willing to just make more of the same thing (which would probably be easiest) as that makes us a lot more vulnerable to price fluctuations in that particular product. That means, no more carbonide of any sort.

What I'm fairly certain still exists as available moons are hafnium and vanadium. So the first step is to claim those. The vanadium moons I know of are also in "good" systems for mining, UMD and 8DL in GW, (also good for ratting) they are however far from stations.
There is probably a free hafnium moon were a small pos can be placed as a mid point as well which means it is possible to jump to either of those vanadium moons.

There are two things that can be made with vanadium hafnite, phenolic composits and hypersynaptic fibers, composites are way cheaper in contents so thats the aim for now.

So first step will be to place a small tower at the hafnium moon and then a large one on the vanadium moon. Later this will be expanded with the rest, most of the towers will remain in lowsec, preferably bimener.
Fuelhaulage from jita will probably be done by contracts to some freighter service.

Any thoughts?

Offline Macrune

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2010, 08:23:09 PM »
Sounds like a good plan. whats the timescales you are looking at for these?
The reason im asking is do we want to wait till we have several rorqs/carriers/dreads available first to assist or are we certain that the locations are safe enough to prevent us suffering early POS seiges and losses.
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Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 08:39:26 PM »
Sounds like a good plan. whats the timescales you are looking at for these?
The reason im asking is do we want to wait till we have several rorqs/carriers/dreads available first to assist or are we certain that the locations are safe enough to prevent us suffering early POS seiges and losses.


Will be after I have the rorq. But havn't thought about that.
Need to check the moons if they are available still as well. Sieges is well a huge risk and if someone does it we will most likely be defenseless regardless. (will be gc/cow or similar 1k+ alliances).

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 04:17:03 PM »
Bit change of heart :)
Instead of one small and one large I think one small and one medium is a better choice at start.
A couple of reasons:
1. Profit, ~130m less fuelcosts for a medium
2. Fuelvolume, 1 month for a medium and small can be hauled in the rorq in one go.
3. "value at risk" (not the real VaR ;) if anyone but me knows what that is) a medium tower with fittings is a lot cheeper than a large and initially we don't know how likely we are to be "allowed" to keep it by CoW, GC and Primary.

Drawback is ofc that a medium is a lot weaker. However a Vanadium moon isn't worth that much either per month, about 70m, so I doubt it will be attacked.
A medium or even small tower is large enough to use as a safe as well.

Time plan is currently to first get this month of moongoo to market, which will be done next week probably (depends on how much longer we can run it without hauling in the new supplies from kasrasi, one or two weeks iirc)
Then as a return trip with a new month of fuel for all towers, the towers for GW will be bought with the necessary modules and hauled to kas.

Before I buy any towers I'll go check the moons again as well.

When setting up the ideal would be to use a cloaky hauler to move the small tower+1h of fuel or so into position and get it online at which point I jump in the rest of the stuff and same procedure for the second tower.

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2010, 05:24:51 PM »
Was out looking for the best place to put a waypoint pos between derelik lowsec (uzis and bimener) and UMD.
I've found a decent one I think, in F5-CGW. A plat moon in a system with no other poses and few belts and crappy ores.

So considering setting a tower there. Would be a large tower in that case.

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 10:52:57 AM »
Fitting information for Tower 1 (Amarr Control Tower)  at a location not specified.

Structure  (Status)
Moon Harvesting Array  (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery  (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery  (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery  (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery  (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery  (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery  (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery  (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery  (Online)
Silo  (Online)
Silo  (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery  (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery  (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery  (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery  (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Simple Reactor Array  (Online)
Photon Scattering Array  (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Online)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery  (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery  (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery  (Offline)
Component Assembly Array  (Offline)
Stasis Webification Battery  (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery  (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery  (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery  (Offline)
Energy Neutralizing Battery  (Offline)
Energy Neutralizing Battery  (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery  (Offline)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 3850 / 5500 (70,00%)
PG Usage:  4960000 / 5000000 (99,20%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light.

Suggestion for a "DS" fitted tower for the platinum moon.

It has a reaction to deal with one simple reaction (whichever that might be) however that could potentially be removed to allow for more guns online.
If attacked everything non essential should be off-lined and more guns be put online.

I've crunched some numbers about the large pulse lasers compared to the large beam lasers. Beams will give better damage at range but pulses give almost the same at almost the same range using +40% range ammo compared to the -50% range ammo for beams (no need to have anything else on beams as they have a optimal of 375km +50% bonus and the longest range a dread can engage at is 249km). I can get 3 pulses online compared to 2 beams without turning off other stuff.
Estimated cost of this setup is 664m.

The drawback compared to minmatar towers is the non optimal resistances given the most common dread being amarr (minmatar has 50% EM and 25% thermal resists which is the only damage the revelation does). This is why I believe in having some resistance modules on the tower, I'd prefer having more than the one online right now but it is a very tight fit one em mod at least makes it harder to kill for the passing dreadfleet.

A advantage of the amarr tower atm is that it is about 25m/month cheaper to operate due to isotope costs.

Any thoughts?

Offline Warcold

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 01:47:43 PM »
sorry, I really don't know enough about POSs and stuff to give any helpful feedback...
maybe on alliance forum?
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 04:25:53 PM »
sorry, I really don't know enough about POSs and stuff to give any helpful feedback...
maybe on alliance forum?

If it didn't give me a
Quote
500 - Internal server error.
There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.

that could have been a option.

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 02:45:30 PM »
I've found that pos guns apparantly doesn't get affected by the ammo range modifications, so always put short range ammo in the guns.
So our DS will only have MF crystals (think thats the best ones).


« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 02:48:34 PM by peo »

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2010, 10:27:36 AM »
Another new thing I've just read, pos guns can shoot through the pos shield and the range/tracking seems to be calculated from the tower not the gun itself.
So placing the guns "north and south" of the tower could be enough.

edit:
Assuming tracking and range is calculated from the tower then the following are "worst case scenarios" when it comes to tangential speed meaning someone orbiting at the exact circumference of the shield.

Large beam: 46 m/s
Large pulse: 114 m/s
Medium beam: 130.8 m/s
Medium pulse: 600 m/s
Small beam: 316.8 m/s

If this is correct then "going in close" with a pos-gun is almost worthless as a method to get under its tracking, you will always be at 35-45 km from it (5-15km from the shield). Which also shows why blasters and certain short range guns are nigh on useless. (a large blaster has a shorter optimal than the shield radius and only 35km falloff)

« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 11:48:02 AM by peo »

Offline Warcold

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 12:14:53 PM »
hmm, so fast ships should be able to outrun the tracking of guns? nice... (if there are no webbers that is...)
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 12:37:49 PM »
hmm, so fast ships should be able to outrun the tracking of guns? nice... (if there are no webbers that is...)

Yes and no.
If you ONLY want to outrun them yes.
Orbit the tower at 31km at 2k or something and you might evade them well enough.

Orbit the gun itself and the tracking should be able to keep up as tracking seems to be counted from the tower and not the guns.

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 01:15:11 PM »
Platinum tower is up, hauling mods and stuff to it. Will try to get it fully armed today as well.

Offline Warcold

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 02:11:29 PM »
ugh  :-[
sorry, totally forgot about 10:15 thing, was wrapped up with RL stuff
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166

Offline peo

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Re: Poses, reactions and future industrial stuff
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 02:15:30 PM »
ugh  :-[
sorry, totally forgot about 10:15 thing, was wrapped up with RL stuff

No problem. Haven't seen anyone in the system apart from myself and tyr :)