Author Topic: Shortage of Dreads  (Read 2999 times)

Offline Rubino

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Shortage of Dreads
« on: January 12, 2009, 09:31:02 PM »
There's currently a shortage of Dreads in 0.0 which gives us an opportunity.
I don't really think it's feasible until we move to 0.0 ourselves - due to the mining limitations (size & type) currently in empire without resorting to the mineral market.

Based on the cost and research time of the ship BPO's - it would be more efficient for us to by BPC's of the ship (currently between ME:3 & ME:6) than to buy and research the cap ship bpo ourselves.
This would allow resources to be used to continue purchasing the Capital Part BPO's.

There's the additional issue of moving the ships - once they are built.  For Caldari it's not an issue - but for the other races it will be.

Thoughts? Ideas? Worries? Suggestions?



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Offline peo

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 05:55:17 AM »
What kind of profits can be made given that we would have to buy a large portion of the materials.

Offline Rubino

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 12:00:58 PM »
If we performed production in 0.0 then we would be able to mine the minerals ourselves.
All ore types can be found in 0.0 and in good volumes. - it's really about effort and coordination.

Dreads sell for around 1.8B isk (give or take) - carriers for around 860M - median empire market prices.

The main costs (outside of the corp mineral purchase programme) would be for the BPC's needed to cover those that we don't own.
I am developing and reestablishing contacts with BPC producers to cover that angle but current market/contract costs for the Cap Parts with a 5-run BPC with decent ME/PE is around 4m.

For a Dread you're looking at between 39 & 44 BPCs (excluding those we own) - giving a purchase cost of 156M - 176M for the BPCs of the parts.
The ship BPC's are obviously more - 70-120M depending on the ship type (dread/carrier). 

Finger in the air estimates of profit (a number of factors are involved so it's a rough prediction using Excel) would be between 600m & 1000m per ship produced with an approx, depending on PE, construction time of 10 days - Beo is the accounts dept, I just work on roughly how feasable things are.

The only extra requirement would be for the manufacturers to have Capital Ship Construction lvl 3 (2 days training from the lvl 1 they have already).  Obviously the more Part BPO's we have the better.  Part BPOs are better than the ship BPOs to start with.  It's a recurring cost per ship and flexible in that one part can be used on multiple ships.  When we have the BP it's just a matter of making 5-run BPCs from the BPO in short bursts (2 copies at a time due to the copy time).  Anything longer than 2 runs and the BPO can be locked in the lab for a week.

Thinking of 0.0 - depending on the region I have most of the parts & fuel to setup a POS on one of my chars - I think essentially missing only the tower.  I would have to check to determine if any fuel was missing based on the tower we setup.  The POS would be of course a MADDI POS.

With a few long term investments paying dividends - I have recently purchased for the corp another part BPO which gives us now the Capital Construction Parts & Capital Cargo Bay.  This is a long way from what's needed of course but another step in the right direction. 

With one of the new contacts I've made and some research - I've also identified an opportunity for the corp to make very decent ISK manufacturing bombs.
I've purchased a pack of Bomb BPC's (6 bomb types) with decent stats (ME:100, PE:25) and runs (300 runs each). 
In a similar fashion to ammo - each run produces 3 bombs. Each bomb sells for between 5 & 7m ISK each (6M avg used).

This gives us a production cost of 8.4m (based on the Corp Mineral Purchase Programme) and an income of 18M per run.

With 1800 total runs available and 5400 bombs produced the corp will net approx 17.2B ISK (excl taxes) - which should be enough to purchase a complete researched set of Capital Construction Part BPOs.



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Offline Warcold

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 12:14:58 PM »
Think main problem wont be BPO/BPCs, but minerals. Dont have hard numbers, but my guess is that we just cant mine enough to keep up with production.
What about buy orders for ore/minerals? Is that a good idea? Or too much hassle/too expensive?
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Offline Rubino

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 01:11:59 PM »
I understand the concern about the minerals and buy orders are a good way to sort some of the minerals.  The issue isn't so much the minerals but finding and arranging for a decent price in 0.0 for them.

In terms of corp mining - the rough approx mining time is:

1 Dread -> 60 BPCs of 5 run = approx 300 components.

Assuming a single Hulk Pilot (without Orca/Rorqual bonuses) with decent skills and 5 mining II drones and mining in 0.0 for an hour - will generally provide minerals for about 3 components.
This gives us about 100 hours of mining for a single miner to produce the minerals for a Dread - scaling those figures gives a rough figure of 25 hours for 4 Hulk Pilots.




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Offline peo

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 03:16:42 PM »
It indeed looks like a very good idea.

I'm just confused with one thing :) everything is in 0.0. Mining in 0.0 without the sov holders consent isn't very safe from what I understand.

Offline Rubino

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 03:20:58 PM »
Aye - which is why you either buy a pass (+standings) or you join an alliance that has 0.0 space.

The latter is obviously better in many ways :)  No only mining and manufacture but fleet PvP!



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Offline peo

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2009, 03:56:35 PM »
Aye - which is why you either buy a pass (+standings) or you join an alliance that has 0.0 space.

The latter is obviously better in many ways :)  No only mining and manufacture but fleet PvP!

True :)
We did decide to try to get into one in a couple of weeks so hopefully by then :) Of course should prepare with the skills and whatnot before :)

Offline vacuum

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 05:50:14 PM »
By the way, the big problem we see at the moment is that the price of zydrine and megacyte are at an ALL TIME low; but Trit is at a huge high. Right now, I wonder if mining trit and selling it at 4ISK per unit is a huge  profit margin on the 2.0ish it was at 6 months ago.

Dreads need a LOT of Trit.

Offline Rubino

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2009, 06:18:47 PM »
Aye - but the above calculation was based on the need for trit.
I would see that we'd use a combination of buy orders & mining it.



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Offline Sinedia

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 10:48:07 AM »
There's the additional issue of moving the ships - once they are built.  For Caldari it's not an issue - but for the other races it will be.

uhh... I can fly the Moros (Gallente) in three months :(

But seeing I'm one of the few Gallenteans here I sould be the one to train for it :)
I saw it overlaps with a fair number of skills I wanted anyway... so I don't see any problems there on my part...

If this is going to be real (not going to go for it if it isn't needed) let me know...
In the mean time I will finish the plan I have at the moment (approx. 2 weeks needed) and after that start with the skills that overlap my own needs and those for a dread...

Offline Rubino

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Re: Shortage of Dreads
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 02:41:39 PM »
This thread was more about priortising Dread construction but for info on the corp Capital programme - checkout: http://handsofjustice.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=563.0



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