Hands of Justice
What we have played => Warhammer Online => Topic started by: Mangala on September 13, 2008, 09:45:22 PM
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Well, it seems Regiments can tax their members, in addition to allowing them to tithe a portion of all monies they make from kills (pvp and pve) to the guild coffers. Given that there are things like Standards, Halls?, bank space and so on to pay for, what would you guys look at?
Given prior experience from Wow and Lotro* a small cadre of people contributed and the majority benefited, and I see taxation (say 0% until we have all hit Tier 2 or something then maybe a level of 5%) as a way to ensure that all contribute as all will benefit. Tithes, I presume are set by the member themselves, and will be something I'll stay away from demanding are done, although will be setting my personal tithe to 5% of all titheable income.
So what say you?
*And EVE of course, but taxes there work alot differently - more like reallife
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dont mind either way but voted taxes just so everybody contributes and some dont slip through the net.
as the saying goes
there's only two things certain in this life death and taxes.
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So tax is 'obiligatory' when used. Tithes are donations?
Seeing the small scale of HoJ in WAR at the moment, if everyone agrees, I'd say yes to taxes.
All I ask is that potential guild tabards or standards are chosen in good contemplation. ;D
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id say 5 -10 % tax as id prob tithe the same again anyways.
see how it goes and decide whats needed, no point building up a huge war fund if its not needed ;)
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Voting in my guild?
I suppose I can compromise :D
Let you vote on Regiment colors and such, while I secretly decide the Standards logos etc!
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Nooooooooooooo! :D
We must fight under the pink cupcake banner damn it! u_u
If the guild gets too rich (yeah, how will that happen with beo white washing all the money into his offshore account in Ulthuan?) our great leader could always send us some gifts or payday bonuses!
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I vote taxes.
And I want a tabard with two lions on it dammit! ;D
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I vote taxes.
And I want a tabard with two lions on it dammit! ;D
Bluey-green-ish or White? ;)
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if its white with lions on it i wouldnt be able to wear it my country would disown me ;)
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I vote taxes.
And I want a tabard with two lions on it dammit! ;D
Bluey-green-ish or White? ;)
I want to say white, but Bluey-green is ooooold school!!! ;D
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So we are rank 3.
You can set your own Tithe via the Guild/Regiment window.
I have not yet implemented a tax rate, and will not until we are greater in numbers.
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Just a bump, as we have had a large influx recently and no doubt all members wish to set up a tithe or get involved in a discussion (doesnt mean I'll listen!) on this :)
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I'd vote for taxes. Just keep it low for the time being (1% maybe), as the expenditures surely can't be that high yet. I mean, it is *nice* to use a standard, but it is not *required* yet by any means, and it is very likely the standards will be used in situations where most of the guild-members are not present (or even aware that a standard is going to be used :) ).
When we have a warband at rank 40, then the real expenditures start, and I think it would be good to rise the taxes to 5% or what ever is needed, as then we really need the guild to have money available.
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Under ideal conditions i'd say tithe rather than tax as that way those paying dont feel like they have no choice (a falsehood maybe but nevertheless you know where im coming from)
The only problem with that is knowing who's paying and who isnt. Beo i take it theres no way you can tell who's paying or not? Being the Head Honcho that you are im not sure if you'd have access to parts of the guild that can tell you that.
If you don't then we have no choice really itll have to be tax to ensure everyone pays thier bit.
Might I suggest that before the tax it implemented its put up in the guild tab in full CAPS for a week or so first just so that no-one can say they werent aware. And also that from now on whenever anyone invites someone to the guild they ensure they tell them first that we will soon be implementing a guild tax of btwn 5 - 10 %. That way no-one can say they werent warned.
(p.s. - ive set my tithe at 10% and to be honest i dont even notice the difference in income so i'd suggest that as the tax rate)
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There will always be lazy and/or selfish people. Taxes all the way, as I reckon voluntary tithes would simply be ignored by some/many and why should the rest of us have to pick up their slack? We're all part of the guild, and each member should pull a little weight imo.
Money is so easy to get even at relatively low levels, so why should anyone complain that a little of that's going into the guild pot?
My only caveat to note is that I haven't a clue what guild money would be spent on, if it's frivolous shit then I guess there's no need for any of this, but I would assume there are legitimate cash sinks in the game. It's not like we're going to need to fund flasks and repair bills is it? O_O
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I currently tithe 10%, I'm happy to continue doing that - it's not even like you really need money for much other than the gyrocopter and new renown gear - and cash is easy to get hold of in T3 (you get 1G for the quests, + 2-3G per scenario if you take part) -- not to mention that Rune Etched Axe + Power Engravings >> your uber T3 armour in Tor Anroc.
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I reckon taxes are the way to go at a lowish rate? Say 5% or 10%. That way everyone is contributing a bit and most folks wont even notice the difference. Then those that are more heavily involved in stuff that uses guild money can if they wish setup a tithe. Or if your just feeling super flush. Is there a way to make the odd one off donation too?
Bearing in mind that donating nice gear for others to use and all the karma involved in a bit of the old "pay it forward" routine as well always takes place so overall the guild as a community should always be benefiting from working together regardless of how things are done.
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Actually in terms of donating gear and whatnot, I've got a few greens sat around my inv that'd probably just get disenchanted (haha) or vendored. What can I do in terms of giving them to the gbank?
Voted taxes, to keep this moderately on topic. imo 15% would be a fair number, though 10% would work also.
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Actually in terms of donating gear and whatnot, I've got a few greens sat around my inv that'd probably just get disenchanted (haha) or vendored. What can I do in terms of giving them to the gbank?
An easy thing to do - if we all got into the habit, that is - is to put good greens/blues we don't expect to make a killing on but that it looks like somebody might find useful on the AH as a "guild only" auction at a low price. It is not as elegant as stuffing things in the guild bank and withdrawing and it may be too painful in practice (what is the longest time limit on auctions?) but if it works out, it would be an easy way to transfer around "gear that might be useful to somebody in the guild but I don't know who" to said "who".
The only major objection to just stuffing things in the guild bank I have is based on WoW - when we tried that, the guild bank had a tendency to fill up with junk; sure, many things were distributed to somebody else (success!) but many things just sort of stacked up well past their point of likely usefulness to anybody.
Anyhow, regarding taxation - TAX THEM TILL THEY BLEED! Well, perhaps that's going a bit too far. :)
Set a moderate tax rate of, say, 25%, and allow brownnosers and those with way too much time on their hands to set their tiher greater than 0. From a practical perspective, until the game gets real money sinks implemented, increasing the time for each member to gain whatever amount of money he needs for something by a third is not significantly going to affect game play while it does allow the guild to start building up a real hoard in case it ever wants to pursue one of the more expensive guild activity options later on (while most of the expenses at that stage are for upkeep and nobody should go there unless they can fund it in the long run, having a headstart will not hurt)
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Possible guild money outlay:
Keep Upkeep (6g per hour if we ever claim a keep from R14 onwards);
Standards (2g per standard if lost, so far I think the bearers are taking this cost themselves, would like to reimburse, even if it is a trivial amount)
Bounty's - Yet to post on this, I'll elaborate more when I finish drafting my idea :)
Not sure what else really - probably more in future as Mythic expands the guild system further.
As for Items to the bank - the only tab we have right now gets full very very fast, I do try and spam about it in chat, but not sure people are aware they can just rock up and take items as and when they feel like it. Sticking them for negligible prices on the AH for Guildies only could be a good idea really :) (I too remember bank mules and such in wow :D)
Personal donations: rock up to the bank and use the deposit money section in the Guild vault tab at the 1st Altdorf :)
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What do we say to a raise from 3% to 5% - the 3 percent has raised about 17G since I trialed it on wednesday.
Just looking ahead at claiming keeps and associated costs really, nothing much else to use the cash on at this stage really.
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Well, fwiw I've lost 3 standards already (one to the enemy, one from logging out, and one from being careless ...). We will go through these things like water (I'm happy to fund it out of my own wallet, it's not like it's particularly real money :-))
That said, I also note that a lot of other guilds seem to have a 15% tax rate ... simply to build coffers. Not sure we want to go there, but just throwing it out there.
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5% now sounds ok to me :)
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I don't have a problem with taxes, just throwing an idea out here - in case we do claim keeps, which is silly expensive, we could declare a state of war and set taxes to something ridiculous for upkeep costs. Obviously this isn't something that can be done unless people agree with it, but since money is relatively easy to make for a player, it could help to have a keep claimed for at least some time.
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5% seems fine to me
Nap.
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Am I right in thinking the tax only comes from the loot money? As I only notice me being taxed then but never when I sell anything in which case I have no issues with the tax being higher as I never really notice what money is coming in from looting corpses anyway.
But yeah 5% seems fine, I'd be OK even at 10%. But not keen above that asI feel beyond 10% should be folks doing tithes and one off donations when thier flush.
Nice thing about cash in the game though is there plenty off it as I felt happy enough to buy 2 siege engines last night just for the fun of trying them out.
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Crank it up to 10% even that amount isnt going to be noticable. After all its not as if cash is hard to come by in this game.
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I vote 10% also.
If I notice I have too much money even then, I'll crank my tithe up.
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I set mine to 10% on my Order main... and now I can't find where to change it anymore. >_>
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I set mine to 10% on my Order main... and now I can't find where to change it anymore. >_>
This is working as intended ;D
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;D
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Figured I'd post why I am starting on small steps with regards to taxes - especially in a game where ingame currency seemingly falls from the sky!
Basically, I want to ensure that every main gets a mount before looking at a raise past 5%, the 3% of the past few days was purely a trial balloon to get a feel for how much is raised, and well as I said earlier in the thread, it raised alot for such a small amount, presumably some people tithe and that was included there too, but I have no way to check on that - and would not wish to have one (Too "Big Brotherish" for me).
5% should be enough to tide us over till the majority are well inside T3, then I can look at an increase to 10% which would be the final rate for the life of the regiment in this game in my opinion: Tithing and Donations seems to work to some extent, and given our mature memberbase works well. Given the exponential increase in gold earned in T3 scenarios & PvE then 10% should be enough to keep us in Standards, and maybe even help us hold a keep for a day or so (Assuming we have the defensive capability to do so).
However Garros raised a point about moving to a "war-footing" when we are capable (Rank 14) and able (say majority mid T3 and higher) to hold a keep for a period of time; using this as an excuse to temporarily raise the tax: I'd look at 25% for these periods, as Keeps currently do cost far too much to run per hour (http://handsofjustice.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=169.0).
So there you have it, my views of taxation now, and taxation in the future. I am open to arguments for differing amounts, after all even a despot needs advice from time to time...
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So there you have it, my views of taxation now, and taxation in the future. I am open to arguments for differing amounts, after all even a despot needs advice from time to time...
scratch advice and replace it with deposed, beaten with a big stick until breathing stops, placed into a vat of acid, all metal objects(fillings, rings belt buckles etc) strained out, and finally the remains washed into the nearest sewer.
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So there you have it, my views of taxation now, and taxation in the future. I am open to arguments for differing amounts, after all even a despot needs advice from time to time...
scratch advice and replace it with deposed, beaten with a big stick until breathing stops, placed into a vat of acid, all metal objects(fillings, rings belt buckles etc) strained out, and finally the remains washed into the nearest sewer.
Poor fishies :(
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Increase to 5% today when I log in shortly.
This will last till I return from from upcoming vacation to Iceland. So after November 11, it will be a 10% rate that will raise or lower depending on situation at the time (ie if we ever own a keep, or find other random stuff to spend the taxation on!).
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upcoming vacation to Iceland.
Fetch me back some fish fingers mate, we're clean out.
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Increase to 5% today when I log in shortly.
This will last till I return from from upcoming vacation to Iceland.
You sure you didn't want to increase tax rate BEFORE going to spend your vacation in ICELAND? ;D