Hands of Justice
What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: Rubino on April 02, 2009, 11:19:24 AM
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Wotcha Guys,
A Moon harvester and silo has been setup at the Z3 POS now for Caesium.
The silo holds 20k m3, Caesium is 0.8 in volume and the harvester yields 100 units/hour
SiloVolume/Caesium Volume
20000 / 0.8
= 25000 Caesium/units
= maxCaesiumHeld/100
= 250 HarvesterHours
= HarvesterHours/24
= 10.41 days
= TimeToFillSilo
= 10d 10h
So it'll need emptying every 10 days or so.
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I can go around emptying it (big work ;) )
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is it (theoretically) possible to set up a 2nd setup at the same pos for mining the titanium?
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Yep :)
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I decided to scan the moons a bit, more specifically the ones in k8l that had a ? in dotlan.
The only one that had anything in it was:
K8L-X7 VIII moon 6: Titanium+Silicates.
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Ideally we'd need a Chromium moon - which would unlock 2 simple reactions for us: Solerium & Titanium Chromide (Titanium can be obtained from the current Moon in Z3).
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I know.
Hope we find one not occupied then. Going to go scanning in ir- later, lots of for dotlan unknown moons.
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So far (updated:090408):
IR-WT1: 1:1:Titanium, evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 3:1:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:2:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:3:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:4:Silicates (2?)
IR-WT1: 3:5:Hydrocarbons
IR-WT1: 3:6:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:7:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:8:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:9:Evaporate deposits (2)
IR-WT1: 3:10:Nothing
IR-WT1: 3:12:Silicates (2), evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 3:13:Nothing
IR-WT1: 4:1:Silicates, hydrocarbons(2)
IR-WT1: 4:2:Caesium, silicates
IR-WT1: 4:3:Hydrocarbons, evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 4:4:Nothing
IR-WT1: 4:5:Hydrocarbons
IR-WT1: 4:6:Nothing
IR-WT1: 4:7:Silicates, Evaporate deposits, Atmospheric gasses
IR-WT1: 4:8:Nothing
IR-WT1: 4:9:Nothing
IR-WT1: 4:10:Chromium, Silicates, hydrocarbons
IR-WT1: 4:11:Occupied (unknown content)
IR-WT1: 4:12:Evaporate deposits, silicates(2)
IR-WT1: 4:13:Atmospheric gasses
IR-WT1: 4:14:Evaporate deposits (2)
IR-WT1: 4:15:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:1:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:2:Atmospheric gasses
IR-WT1: 5:3:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:4:Silicates(2), Atmospheric gasses
IR-WT1: 5:5:Silicates(2)
IR-WT1: 5:6:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:7:Silicates, Hydrocarbons, Evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 5:8:Titanium
IR-WT1: 5:9:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:10:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:11:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:12:Silicates, Hydrocarbons, Atmospheric gasses
IR-WT1: 5:13:Atmospheric gasses (2)
IR-WT1: 5:14:Hydrocarbons
IR-WT1: 5:15:Nothing
IR-WT1: 5:16:Silicates, Evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 5:17:Silicates
IR-WT1: 6:1:Nothing
IR-WT1: 6:2:Silicates, Hydrocarbons
IR-WT1: 6:3:Silicates (2), Hydrocarbons
IR-WT1: 6:4:Nothing
IR-WT1: 6:5:Nothing
IR-WT1: 6:6:Evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 6:7:Nothing
IR-WT1: 6:8:Nothing
IR-WT1: 6:9:Silicates, Evaporate deposits
IR-WT1: 6:10:Titanium
Rubino did some moon scanning in a SoT system where we perhaps can get to set up a pos and mine:
Results were:
4HS-CR: 4:6:Tit, Silicates, Atmospheric gasses
4HS-CR: 4:7:Atmospheric gasses
4HS-CR: 4:9:Evaporate deposits
4HS-CR: 4:10:Atmospheric gasses
4HS-CR: 4:11: (as per dotlan) Atmospheric gasses, Evaporate deposits(2), Platinum [this was unoccupied and would be a decent place for a pos, reacting gasses with deposits and selling platinum should at current prices give about 3.7m/day or a bit over 100m/30days in Jita]
4HS-CR: 9:4: (as per dotlan) Hydrocarbons, Platinum [also unoccupied, would be a second choice]
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Did some more scanning (results added to the list above) and found a good moon, acctually one good and one decent, namely a chromium moon.
IR-WT1 planet 4 moon 10.
I think our next pos should be at that moon.
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Trying to look a bit at reactions we can potentially earn money on using the moons we know of or have poses on. It will probably require a few more poses for both reaction and mining.
The simple reactions we can do are: (given a pos on the chromium moon that is)
Solerium (Caesium+Chromium, ~12m isk/day)
Titanium Cromide (Titanium+Chromium, ~7m isk/day)
Hexite (Chromium+Platinum, ~9.5m isk/day)
Sulfuric Acid (not worth it by itself)
Silicon Diborite (not worth it by itself)
Ceramic Powder (not worth it by itself)
Carbon Polymers (not worth it by itself)
Complex reactions (all of them are based on two parallel reactors ):
Titanium Carbide (Silicon Diborite+Titanium Cromide, ~25m isk/day)
Sylramic Fibers (Ceramic Powder+Hexite, ~22m isk/day)
If we could find a tungsten and/or a cadmium moon the number of reactions would increase significantly. Some of the reactions are of course exclusionary due to the moon mining limit of 100 units/h.
edit: Missed the lower yield per hour of sylramic fibers 6k/h and reactor rather than 10k so have updated with that
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How do I go about emptying these and checking when they need emptying and also once emptied where would the contents need moving?
I ask as I'm able to help out having a hauler at Z and being able to scout just prior to moving stuff anywhere too :)
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How do I go about emptying these and checking when they need emptying and also once emptied where would the contents need moving?
I ask as I'm able to help out having a hauler at Z and being able to scout just prior to moving stuff anywhere too :)
You offline the harvesting array then pick up the stuff in silo and then turn the harvesting array on again.
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Was the silo that was to be offlined and then onlined not the harvesting array. Emptied the silo just now.
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Thanks for the advice Hrod - and emptying it too :)
So its every 10 days or so.
/me thinks gogo windows calendar!
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Yup, about 10 days for the caesium one. It depends on the size of the mineral being mined ofc.
I dumped the minerals in the ore/mins tab at the corp hangar in z30. Didn't know where to put it otherwise.
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I do have a longing to get us into T2 production - and the great work you guys have been doing scanning moons and looking into what will make a profit is indespensible.
We just need to line up the right ducks first before we're in a position to start exploiting what's available.
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I do have a longing to get us into T2 production - and the great work you guys have been doing scanning moons and looking into what will make a profit is indespensible.
We just need to line up the right ducks first before we're in a position to start exploiting what's available.
Seems to be relatively simple to produce at least the components (or am I mistaken??) which sell for decent sums in the end. The further up the tree we can get stuff the better and more profitable it would become ofc.
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Aye - but there's also a political landscape we need to navigate and we need to ensure we have the financhial resources to fund/fuel the towers.
I'll knock up some tower configs aimed at moon mining so we can plan in their expense and purchase.
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Aye - but there's also a political landscape we need to navigate and we need to ensure we have the financhial resources to fund/fuel the towers.
I'll knock up some tower configs aimed at moon mining so we can plan in their expense and purchase.
I know.
I've been thinking about the moon mining pos:es a bit. In general I think that unless they are on very rare materials it is better to go reasonably cheep. A gal small tower, a few hardeners and guns and the silo-harvester.
The benefit of the gal tower is two fold, 100% bonus to silo size=less management and it runs on local ice which makes it easier/cheeper.
Of course my main reasoning behind the moon mining thing was to have it fund expansion the upkeep and expansion of poses :) due to its relatively little time requirements in game. But getting further up the chain yields more cash so it is good.
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Aye - don't forget to factor in sov into the equation. It lowers the tower's fuel reqs.
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I noticed that PMS sov dropped in 9d60-m.
That system contains a Cadmium moon, cadmium is a very valuable r16 material and should when reacted to the caesium we already have be worth (using the buy orders in jita this time) 792m isk/month.
However cadmium isn't a common r16 moon so if it is something we want we probably need to act fast. I'll go down there and take a look later to make sure it is safe enough and not occupied.
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Sounds like a very profitable idea.
However there is one thing to be wary of, Sons or PL wanting that moon and the EH leadership giving it to them?
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Sounds like a very profitable idea.
However there is one thing to be wary of, Sons or PL wanting that moon and the EH leadership giving it to them?
Doubt they would bother with that kind of moon to be honest, they probably have all the cadmium they can handle. But a moot point anyway, someone has a pos at that moon. Of course no clue as to who (not warping in close)
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Humm - you can always eject from your ship, BM it and then warp to it in your pod in safety.
I tend to do it even if the scanner shows the all clear as a double check.
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A sot pos it seems.
Ah well easy come easy go so to speak.
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The chrom moon I scanned is now occupied.
Would have been nice to get some cash from moonmining but looking less and less likely we will ever get anything worth mining.
Guess I shouldn't have wasted the cash and time to scan down the moons.
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5 years worth of people living in 0.0 does that im afraid :(
Theres been ideas punted about moons running out or changing on a random basis, but theyve always been burned fast.
How about Alchemy and looking into that? (Using lower end moon poo to make higher end reactions)
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=601
However its not the best solution really :(
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5 years worth of people living in 0.0 does that im afraid :(
Theres been ideas punted about moons running out or changing on a random basis, but theyve always been burned fast.
How about Alchemy and looking into that? (Using lower end moon poo to make higher end reactions)
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=601
However its not the best solution really :(
The idea is cash for little effort in order to fuel the corp with cashflow.
I didn't scan the moons for my own benefit.
We had a window of opportunity. It was missed. We would have made enough to pay for the runningcosts of the poses we have and some more from the solerium reaction.
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Did a quick check on the alchemy.
For 100 vanadium and 100 platinum you would get 1 unrefined fluxed condensates.
Now, given that vanadium has buy orders for around 600isk and plat around 900isk that means an alternative cost of 600*100+900*100=150000isk.
Now what do you get from alchemy.
1 unrefined, lets assume we have 100% refine so 1 unrefined becomes 10 fluxed and we get back 95 plat, now here is the kicker...
Fluxed condensates is the worst complex reaction material there are but it is worth around 3000isk/unit.
So the reaction would yield 3000*10+900*95=115500.
So the loss would be 44500 and this isn't including the cost of the pos upkeep.
Most of the alchemy reactions require... cadmium which is unavailable for us. Others require chromium, and that is also unavailable. Some require mercury (which I dont even think exists in fountain) etc etc.
There are some free platinum moons and possibly vanadium so that reaction would be open to us but as you can easily see it is utterly worthless.
(whoever came up with the alchemy idea needs to have his head examined because the way they seem to work makes it impossible to make any kind of money on them)
edit: had misunderstood the refining, apparantly you get 10 of the high end and 95 of the second material in a perfect refine and not 1 of the high end as I thought.
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Alchemy was a great idea very shoddily implemented by CCP, its not worth the effort that goes into it, unless you can do it in MASSIVE amounts.
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Alchemy was a great idea very shoddily implemented by CCP, its not worth the effort that goes into it, unless you can do it in MASSIVE amounts.
Hardly worth it then either.
To produce 100/h you need 10 reactors, no idea how many can fit on a tower, and the raw materials to feed them. That is 1000 of one type and 1000 of the other or 20 moons. I wonder which region has access to lets say 10 cadmium moons? and if you can have 10 poses on those you are probably better of reacting the cadmium with something else which you by then can easily do.
Idiotic idea, had it been about the absolute low end and at a much better ratio then perhaps it could have worked but right now hardly.
Would seriously doubt anyone is doing it.
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Scanned a bit in apm today, seems a REALLY crappy system.
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apm, rp2, r3w, oog scanned
Next system to scan is 7-8S5X (no moons registered on dotlan, 71 moons in total, no sov) could perhaps hold something.
D4K has 85 moons not registered on dotlan but is PL sov so could be hard to get to set a pos up there.
What we should look for is: chromium, cadmium or tungsten
If someone stumbles on any of the following it would be good as well but the likelihood is almost nil: scandium, technetium or hafnium
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71 moons and no sov?
thats intriuging and worrying in same measure...
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71 moons and no sov?
thats intriuging and worrying in same measure...
Probably something along the lines of the corp holding the sov pos left the alliance.
I've scanned a bunch of the moons there and so far nothing of value. Two occupied and one titanium moon. Anyway will continue later on after I have some more cash again (scanning costs a bit hehe)
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Lots of taken moons there, weirdly enough one taken by a container...
If that moon has something of value I wonder what PL would say if you blow it up and anchor your own tower there...
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Reimburse your scan costs from the wallet - you are putting a HUGE amount of effort into this, so dont pay for your costs yourself.
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I found another chrom moon. It is in 7-8S5x planet 7 moon 9 so a system that lacks sov in a non restricted constellation (centaur).
I will anchor the small pos we have there and if there are consequenses play stupid (no sov=noone to ask). I have no idea how to anchor or do anything with a pos so well..
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Didn't have the skills... :/
So if anyone has the skills and appropriate role in the corp it would be great if they could anchor the pos so we don't miss this one as well.
I'll have anchoring 3 in about 18h and if it isn't anchored by then I'll try again (and hope noone has gotten sov or taken the moon)
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The place is:
7-8S5X planet VII moon 9 it contains chromium and atmospheric gases.
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Ok the pos is up and is in the process of fueling it.
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Ok the pos is up and is in the process of fueling it.
Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeees aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaageee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees doesnt it to anchor and then online :S
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Everything is up and running.
The basic plan right now is to go there once a week with fuel and bring back the weekly lot of chromium.
The tower uses about 10k m3 of fuel in one week and produces 6.7k m3 of chromium.
I'll get a reactor and silos etc and temporarily set up at z30. To get it working I will take the cyno gen offline. This is strictly temporary and will last until we have a active cap pilot again (either when/if red gets back or anyone else can use capitals)
We still have the issue of bringing stuff to market. Still trying to figure out a decent solution to that.
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Good Idea on taking the cyno gen offline.
If you get stuck for grid at all - I'd be happy to move all my stuff from my hangar to a station and then take down my hangar too. Anything for this cause to be honest.
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The cyno should be more than enough.
A little bit longer term plan is to set up a separate pos for reactions (will need a large one for a advanced reaction for example) which will allow for stuff to be onlined again.
But don't want to do that before we have jump capable cargoships in corp again (ror or JF) since we would be more dependent on regular high sec hauls.
When those plans come to fruition we will have a better base and more flexibility.
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will others be take the cyno gen now its offline? if so, we might want to put it inside shield, in a hangar or such...
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when its anchored only those in corp who can configure starbase equipment can unanchor it so peeps outside corp cant take it
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kk, good
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I've been sketching a bit in my head the last two days or so about where we can take moon harvesting and reaction in the future. This isn't until we have good logistics in regards to hauling stuff to market (and back) but some general ideas.
With what we have and can get within reason is the low end advanced reactions as I've pointed out earlier in this thread. It is possible to get profit by reacting high ends brought from empire but I'm not 100% on the profits there, I'll do some more calculations later but I think that keeping to what we can produce is initially the best choice.
A complex reactor requires a large tower, it can fit a few more things but not that much, so we would have to get one of those. To lessen logistics I think that z30 is a good place to have it and we should be able to get one of the gases needed in the advanced reaction from it.
We will also need some place to react the simple reactions, either two medium or one large tower for that. Ideally in the same system as the pos with the complex reaction to make hauling simpler/faster.
Then it is probable we might need more harvesting towers eventually. But for a medium term moon harvesting setup we would need the above mentioned towers, probably easiest is two large.
Anyway just some random thoughts.
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I would indeed like as much posses as possible to be kept in one system
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I would indeed like as much posses as possible to be kept in one system
Yes
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Some more random ramblings.
Did a bit of calculations on profit from reacting more advanced materials (in this case hypersynaptic fibers).
By buying (jita prices) dysporite and vanadium hafnite the profitmargin is about 500m/month. Slightly higher if we buy hafnium and react with vanadium in fountain (given we can find a vanadium moon) but would need more pos resources. It would be possible to set up the hypersynaptic fiber reaction with only one more tower (large) so estimating 100m in running costs for that tower the profit should end up around 400m/month.
We would also still be able to sell half the production from the solerium reaction since it would give 200/h but the advanced only uses 100/h.
So in theory we could make about 500m/month from both reactions.
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Hmm something is wrong with the prices of moon materials in jita currently.
Chromium alone is worth about 3.1k isk/unit (and caesium 1.4k isk/unit), so selling those without reacting them yields more than reacting them into solerium.
Basically we would get 324m/month from that compared to solerium which yields 201m/month.
Looked a bit at alchemy (someone said that if you had a chrom/cad moon you should do it), given perfect refines and buying cadmium, to make the prometium alchemy reaction it should yield about 356m/month.
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Now with arcane gone there should be ample of good moons to take.
I'm going to go look around at the places where arcane sov dropped and see if I can find either more chrom moons (as selling chrom by itself is very profitable) or other decent moons.
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Meh sot has gotten sov in 7-8.
So might be forced to remove the pos we have there (our chrom pos).
Don't know if we should do nothing and wait until they react or be proactive and talk to them.
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Well sent a eve-mail to nowayman (sot contact on the renters agreement) and asked about how to handle this.
I expect to get a angry reply demanding we move the pos at once back.
But probably better to tell them them when and how it ended up before they find out about it, think that gives a better chance to get to keep the pos even if it is a very small chance.
We'll see by tonight or so I guess.
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We have a Caesium moon right?
Just read this somewhere:
ABout 50 mil a week un reacted, 500 Mil a month if you do a Reaction with it.
Thats not bad is it?
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so far only chromium has sold in jita, caesium hasnt yet
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We have a Caesium moon right?
Just read this somewhere:
ABout 50 mil a week un reacted, 500 Mil a month if you do a Reaction with it.
Thats not bad is it?
Old numbers.
Caesium and Solerium has plummeted in price while chromium has skyrocketed.
Caesium seems to go for about 1000/unit=71m/30 days
Chrom goes for about 3000/unit=216m/30 days
Solerium goes for about 2200/unit=316m/30 days
So can be abit more valuable, changed significantly in a few days, probably since Caesium has fallen by 30% or so. I've been reconsidering alchemy though, having chromium means we can react it into prometium iirc.
Not efficient for reacting to advanced materials but for pure sales it can be profitable.
(given perfect refines which I assume we can get in empire, someone should have standings enough I hope haha)
Each cycle yields 10 prometium and 95 cadmium while it consumes 100 chrom and 100 cadmium.
So:
10*59000+95*6500-100*6500=557500/h ~400m/30 days
Another option is hyperflourite:
10*54000+95*1500-100*1500=532500/h ~383m/30 days (if we could get a vanadium moon it would be about 491m but would ofc have the added cost of running a pos at that moon)
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Got a response from Nowayman from SoT today:
i'm corently at vacation and don't know do you solve that issue or not but if you not you can contact red pimp
I don't really know what he said but I sent the mail to red pimp, so another wait I guess. :)
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2009.06.19 06:48
There will be no problem deploying pos there just dont clame sov and everything will be fine
From "red pimp".
So our pos is safe (for now at least) :)
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Awesome - great news from them at least.
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http://www.eve-files.com/media/0812/unrefined_reactions.pdf
For alchemy.
I've started to scan a bit again, mainly in outer ring but also checking up on decent moons i already know of.
One thing I'd like to know though it seems as if the alliance had prior knowledge of felony13 (and arcane etc) leaving and not telling the ceos of many of the corps.
Resulting in all good moons in these systems going to prost and probably one or two more corps.
I've already ran across 2 prost chrom moons for example.
Feels a bit weird.
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http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/MoonProfitTableXLS.zip
Just needs prices updating with jita ones - nto sure if you have something similar already (I know i dont).
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http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/MoonProfitTableXLS.zip
Just needs prices updating with jita ones - nto sure if you have something similar already (I know i dont).
Nah I've mostly been using the calculator.
Not that difficult to punch in: 100*24*30*price :)
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Meh ran into a pos hehe oh well.
Anyways, there is a unoccupied vanadium moon in rp2 (ez sov 1 jump from pnq), I'll make some more investigations but at a glance reacting chrom and vanadium into unrefined hyperflourite (and ofc into the normal hyperflourite after ;)) should yield a income per 30 days of about 460m. Depends a bit on refine and standings, did a test and bought 1 unit an refined with refining efficiency 0 and refining V it yielded 9 hyperflourite and 82 vanadium, so approximatly 14% lost, however I would expect that with refining efficiency at V it would only be taxes counting which ofc probably rounds up.
To do this one tower to mine and somewhere to react would be needed. For example it could be one medium tower at the vanadium moon. Running costs of a medium tower there should be about 100m without sov and 75m with.
Currently we can sell chromium for about 3700isk/unit which should give about 266m/30 days.
Value added from the vanadium moon would in other words be about 200m so after costs of tower is deducted about 120m or so.
With perfect refines the income should be about 520m btw.
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Updated the spreadsheet with reasonably current prices (still approximations but is close enough to make conclusions from) and colours for various things we have access to.
Red means no access to base moon materials (r64's so will never be within our grasp :( ).
Green means we already produce, yellow means reaction we can make with stuff from the moons we already have.
Base minerals with a thin box is minerals available to us in the current moons.
I know of both platinum and vanadium moons so could be possible to get those without any significant problem.
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Also for "less valuable moons", there are small/medium towers on Cadmium all over the north/south in lowsec, some Cadmium moons aren't even taken yet. That's 500m/month in jew silver (before fuel costs).
Found this quote from Viper Shizzle on shc (while he seems to be an ass the info could be true)
So I'll start looking a bit at the not known cad moons in aridia. One of them would mean the alchemy reaction by itself is worth about 1bn/month. I'll also make a few notes about occupancy (who and what kind of tower) since if they are occupied by small entities it could be of interest to the alliance to take.
Of course the intel could just as well be bullcrap but it is worth looking into a bit.
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When it comes to moons he doesnt BS.
Hes a moongold-jew of the highest caliber :D (PL speak for rich).
I'll train Angaraka to scan and look over Solitude if you want too?
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When it comes to moons he doesnt BS.
Hes a moongold-jew of the highest caliber :D (PL speak for rich).
I'll train Angaraka to scan and look over Solitude if you want too?
Not much to scan, think most moons in low-sec are know in dotlan. Mostly flying around in a non-implanted clone and pod to check what is there :)
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Ok, the second chrom pos is up :)
Hopefully noone will bother with it from the alliance.
It is located in z30 p11 m12. Next door to our main pos.
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Did a quick calculation to what we have brought in with the chrom stored in beer shack and the reaction results, the current saleprice of it would yield about 840m.
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Did a quick calculation to what we have brought in with the chrom stored in beer shack and the reaction results, the current saleprice of it would yield about 840m.
:o :o :o :o :o :o
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The chrom is about 600m so a little more than 2 months that we haven't been able to haul out.