Hands of Justice

What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: Mangala on December 20, 2008, 03:51:41 PM

Title: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 20, 2008, 03:51:41 PM
Ma'adim always needs minerals, be it for people to make ammunition with or for our ship builders to build some ships with and of course for us to stockpile, in case any aspect of Tech 3 items and ships creation requires them. 

Currently they are sourced on an ad-hoc basis by myself - from trading, from those rather epic missions with good ore's in them and of course by other members for whom mining is not the soul-crushing past time it is for many in their early days in EVE Online.

Following impromptu discussion in EVE Newbs it seems to be the case that our needs for minerals can be met from us all, if only there was an incentive system in place.  To this end, I am looking at the following methods of ensuring people get fair remittance for their Minerals without it breaking the corporation wallet (Please note that apart from the odd donation of isk by me, the corp wallet is entirely funded through taxes taken from mission hand in's and npc kills valued at 35,000 isk or more).

1. Remittance for Minerals could be given with pricing being 75% of Jita market value per unit.  This will allow us to turn a profit of sorts on anything the corp does sell made from these minerals and still get the miners a fair price for their goods; Downside to this is that the market can fluctuate alot on the minerals encountered less in High Security space and so cause earnings to be low for the more adventurous miners amongst us although when they do earn they EARN!

2. All members have a Station Container in the corporate hangar and the corp pays them a flat fee for all ore and minerals placed there over the course of a week - guaranteed earning without feeling a need to meet a target; Downside to this is, less overall profit as all mineral types are valued the same.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Short post I know, but I wanted these ideas out there while I work on other sections/further posts for this thread.  I am sure Constantine will provide us with an example of the total's he needs on a regular basis so we can flesh out and get some actual monetary figures done for people to mull over these points and provide their own feedback etc.

My biggest concern is ensuring that the corp wallet doesnt run dry doing this as its a good thing to have corporate funding for future expansion especially in the matter of Tech 3.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Macrune on December 20, 2008, 04:33:14 PM
I dont require paying for any minerals i contribute to the corp. At present my output is low er than i would like but within the next 7 days ill be flying a proper miner on my alt so the quantity ill be mining will hopefully go through the roof at which point ill be contributing 50% of what i mine to the corp coffers. This will of course change if the corp requires more for a specific reason.
When i get online later tonight i'll transfer what minerals i have across to the corp bay.
I believe its round about 2000000 units of Trit plus varying quantitys of the other three lower end minerals.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Caradir on December 20, 2008, 05:33:32 PM
I think this is a nice idea, guaranteed selling of all your ores/minerals and in return i make all the ammo you want free of charge so you win both ways ;) 

As Beo said we do need to ensure that the corp wallet has a "fighting" fund for the future, as it gets healthier im sure there will be other discussions as to how it can serve us all.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 20, 2008, 06:48:23 PM
Isnt there some middle road? Like... sell for 75% of the jita price (or mebbe of the 5day average of jita in pricehistory) and let the miner set up a contract?  I think we should trust each other enough to let the seller do this, this way putting less load on the corp management.
Flatfeeing is not the way to go IMHO...

Offers like Mac are, although very generous, not something that will make the corp float in the long run.
Giving money for the ore will give ppl an incentive to mine, although the pay wont be as good as on the free market. Me being a typical greedy Dutch, I would be more willing to mine few hours per week for some nice iskies than for nothing. I like to see some kind of result from the work i do, and the abstract idea that the corp profits from it just aint enough (hey, I'm no angel, sorry). Seeing some iskies, even though its not as much as on free market is as good an incentive as any.

About the corp coffers that need to get filled: I think that the more members mine, the more corp coffers get filled.
-> If we make just enough to make ammo off... Ok, then we will lose by paying the members for their ore (but you'll have to agree we wont lose much if we only mine enough to make ammo).
If, on the other hand we mine lots of minerals, there will be a nice surplus to make stuff out we can sell. For example, the last couple of days we sold about 4 kestrels and 0.5-1 badger a day. And I suppose this was only sales from one station. Although the profit prolly wasnt great, we DID make a profit and selling in more stations will make the profit grow.
I for one would be willing to deliver some kestrels here and there and put em on sale and Beo also mentioned his hulk being able to transport 20 kestrels at a time.

I think this 'small sales' is our short term way to go. I for one would like to get rid of the abstract -a corp can make money- to a more practical -whoopee! our corp is making a profit!-
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 20, 2008, 07:30:32 PM
One thing, that I need to touch on. Thera should be the one doing ALL corp refining at this stage.  She has very good skills, and its in her future to finish these up - all the Ore Processing skills and Scrapmetal Processing - these skills, combined with her improving standings with Spacelane, Caldari Navy & Corporate Police Force give us an end result of minimal loss to both station taxes and refinery inefficency with more minerals coming our way, and conversely a greater profit to you chaps.

So please if you need refining doing, contract it to her, she will contract it back once done and then you can do what you will with it.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 22, 2008, 11:39:39 AM
bumpski

any other ideas about this?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 22, 2008, 12:09:27 PM
Quote from: Warcold on December 22, 2008, 11:39:39 AM
bumpski

any other ideas about this?

Currently looking at markets - for T1 (and now I have to add rigs to this) ships and so on - lots of data, lots of regions, luckily two monitors helps!

Just making them and selling in The Citadel market is all well and good, but its highly populated empire space with inumerable manufacturers, so by looking further afield I can find markets for our goods that will gain us a better return.  For example, the markets in the regions Faction Warfare occurs in (specifically the low sec areas of: Black Rise, Essence, Lonetrek, Heimatar, The Bleaklands & Devoid) are one possibility. Requires me to move to each of them so I can scan market data, without moving my trader's clones from the major market hubs (You DONT want to be getting into those markets by the way, 0.01isk price wars on so much :S) but thats not a problem :)

I have the links to the killboards of various faction warfare focused corporations, so I can also use the data there to see which T1 ships - within our manufacturing purview (Frigs, maybe cruisers) - are most killed in combat in those areas.

Apart from FW, again good potential markets are regions with a direct 0.0 access system from highsec, or a number of high sec>low sec> 0.0 pipes. These systems will often have player camps on the opposite side and helping people who have just lost a ship to lose a new one could turn a profit, as could selling rigs in these area's (Passing traffic of people moving back and forth to 0.0 to fight in the various conflicts there).

(Random I know, but brain hurts right now )
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Jarkko on December 22, 2008, 01:29:43 PM
All this sounds great, but I don't understand half of it  :P  I hope that isn't a problem. Anyway, I support anything that is good for us :)


Regarding reprocessing stuff: The corp hangars seem to have (or at least had last time I took a look there) stuff nobody prolly will use (like civilian shield boosters etc). Would it be possible to set up a tab for things donated to the corp and which nobody will (or should :p) fit into their ship, and thus the master reprocesser could reprocess all that stuff every now and then?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Caradir on December 22, 2008, 01:51:14 PM
anthing for reproceeesing goes in the minerals bin, so if any modules are  in there Thera knows to break em down
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 22, 2008, 04:05:34 PM
in the container in the minerals bin in fact
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 11:15:13 AM
Since I volunteered to do the gruntwork regarding payouts, will you set the new prices yourself every 4 weeks, or will I do it?
In that case you'll need to point me to the website(s) where I can pull that info from.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 11:16:54 AM
Quote from: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 11:15:13 AM
Since I volunteered to do the gruntwork regarding payouts, will you set the new prices yourself every 4 weeks, or will I do it?
In that case you'll need to point me to the website(s) where I can pull that info from.

I'll mail you, as I'll have my heads in those figures for other purposes anyways :)

Also improved spreadsheet is on its way soon :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Macrune on December 23, 2008, 11:32:55 AM
Latest noob question for you old timers.
How do you determine who's putting what in the way of minerals and salvage in the coffers. Does it show up in a list for those of you with management access or will you require us to send a mail with the details to the person holding the purse strings ?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: Macrune on December 23, 2008, 11:32:55 AM
Latest noob question for you old timers.
How do you determine who's putting what in the way of minerals and salvage in the coffers. Does it show up in a list for those of you with management access or will you require us to send a mail with the details to the person holding the purse strings ?

Contract your minerals/dc's/salvage to the Corp, and Aicha - once the program is fully sorted (Like I say I need a little time to aggregate salvage figures) - can pay out using the numbers in the contract window to plug into the spreadsheet. He then accepts the contract on behalf of the corp and moves the items about to the relevant hangar. 

I'd suggest once a week for contracting items as follows:

Datacores: Monday (I do my DC runs on a weekend, as thats when I have more time normally, so suggest Monday as the day we contract them to the corp)

Minerals: Thursday (Just because!)

Salvage: Friday (See above)

This way Aicha or whoever isnt being swamped and doesnt have an entire evenings play spent doing math!
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 11:43:42 AM
Obviously thera is available to refine your ores to minerals anytime one of my chars is online, so contract or station trade to her and she'll get them right back
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 12:55:48 PM
Could you add prices for unrefined ore using Thera's efficiency levels?
That way our miners can just ditch the raw ore without having to worry about having it refined first, and I can payout the same 80% rates at 100% refine efficiency.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Jarkko on December 23, 2008, 01:08:31 PM
I still don't figure this out, so please, could somebody tell in steps what I should do and where to sell my salvaged stuff to the corp? I've made only one contract so far (Beo transported some minerals), but I don't have a clue on how I did that...
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 12:55:48 PM
Could you add prices for unrefined ore using Thera's efficiency levels?
That way our miners can just ditch the raw ore without having to worry about having it refined first, and I can payout the same 80% rates at 100% refine efficiency.

100% refine is still a long way off for Thera - standings and getting ALL reprocessing skills to V (She has Refine & Refine Efficiency to V at the moment). But I'll try to add a section for Ore Purchasing - given that theres 3 sub-types of each ore and each have their own market value and each sub-type refines into differing amounts of constituent minerals (See my point about Thera's skills), this will take a while :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 01:09:56 PM
Quote from: Jarkko on December 23, 2008, 01:08:31 PM
I still don't figure this out, so please, could somebody tell in steps what I should do and where to sell my salvaged stuff to the corp? I've made only one contract so far (Beo transported some minerals), but I don't have a clue on how I did that...

Gimme a few and I'll stick a post on how to do that :)

Here: http://handsofjustice.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=530.0

Even has images.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 02:06:19 PM
It may be easier to give everyone a named station container in Anttiri to ditch their ore and salvage in.
I can easily go there once a week, see what each holds, and simply deposit funds into everyone's account while I take out the ores.

Or perhaps the contracts are even easier, but I haven't quite figured out how to use them myself.  ;D
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Jarkko on December 23, 2008, 02:28:26 PM
Quote from: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 02:06:19 PM
It may be easier to give everyone a named station container in Anttiri to ditch their ore and salvage in.
This sounds like something I could comprehend and understand :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 02:06:19 PM
It may be easier to give everyone a named station container in Anttiri to ditch their ore and salvage in.
I can easily go there once a week, see what each holds, and simply deposit funds into everyone's account while I take out the ores.

Or perhaps the contracts are even easier, but I haven't quite figured out how to use them myself.  ;D

Contracts are easier as there are ways of checking what was in each, and they go back as far as the corp goes back etc.

Although I do see the value of doing it with Containers too. They too have logs after a fashion, but they are very unwieldy to use.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 23, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: Gunnarr on December 23, 2008, 12:55:48 PM
Could you add prices for unrefined ore using Thera's efficiency levels?
That way our miners can just ditch the raw ore without having to worry about having it refined first, and I can payout the same 80% rates at 100% refine efficiency.

Made a start.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 24, 2008, 07:19:57 PM
Quote
Contract your minerals/dc's/salvage to the Corp, and Aicha - once the program is fully sorted (Like I say I need a little time to aggregate salvage figures) - can pay out using the numbers in the contract window to plug into the spreadsheet. He then accepts the contract on behalf of the corp and moves the items about to the relevant hangar. 

So miner contracts to corp for 0 isk and Aicha gives miner relevant amount of money?
Me no understand no...


Wouldnt this
Quote
and let the miner set up a contract?  I think we should trust each other enough to let the seller do this, this way putting less load on the corp management.
be easier?

Or do you reccon this aint foolproof enough?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 24, 2008, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Warcold on December 24, 2008, 07:19:57 PM
Quote
Contract your minerals/dc's/salvage to the Corp, and Aicha - once the program is fully sorted (Like I say I need a little time to aggregate salvage figures) - can pay out using the numbers in the contract window to plug into the spreadsheet. He then accepts the contract on behalf of the corp and moves the items about to the relevant hangar. 

So miner contracts to corp for 0 isk and Aicha gives miner relevant amount of money?
Me no understand no...
Yes - thats basically it.  He pays out using the spreadsheet to do the tedious work - ie all the math and just inputs figures into it and pays out money :)

Quote from: Warcold on December 24, 2008, 07:19:57 PM
Wouldnt this
Quote
and let the miner set up a contract?  I think we should trust each other enough to let the seller do this, this way putting less load on the corp management.
be easier?

Or do you reccon this aint foolproof enough?

In both situations the miner is the one setting up the contract.

In the latter I understand that you mean the miner also sticks the total isk payout they require in their contract as the asking price?

If that is the case everyone would need to keep an eye on the prices published in the Purchase Program thread and do all the math themselves, and then setup the contract, plug in the total value, which then would need to be checked by the member accepting the contract just in case someone undercut themselves or overcharged the wallet, adding an extra step (I do trust people to not make mistakes with numbers, but hell thats one of the reasons I have an accountant in real-life!). This is assuming everyone doesnt use the spreadsheet I have put together that will do the math for you (but still needs manual updates of the market price).

I do trust people to do things right and proper (its a wonder Ive lasted this long in EVE like that!), however want to get the balance of play versus :effort: for all involved, and to be honest I found a central figure paying out on the contracts in the last player corp I was a director of, worked out alot better for all and given that Ma'adim is there for us all, spreading the current :effort: around those willing to do certain tasks is a good thing no?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 25, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
Quick seriousish post.

Mac recently setup a contract of unrefined ores to the corp.  I took those figures and plugged them into various tools to get the refined minerals total based on Thera's skills. Then plugged into it my spreadsheet (Sitting at the parents with not much to do right now :S) as well as added all my data for the differing yield types of minerals.

The attached sheet shows the difference between payout. Yes based on Thera refining, but even with subpar refining skills, taxes etc it looks like selling refined mins over ore itself (even if you do it yourself) wins out.

I'll pay out to Mac based on the refined total regardless :)

/me goes off to look for tea.

Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Macrune on December 25, 2008, 08:13:54 PM
So are you happy for us to refine it before we send it to the corp then?
To be honest im not going to quible over a few hundred thousand .
I want to do it which ever way makes it less work for those in corp who will be sorting it.
So you tell me. raw ore or refined minerals and ill abide by that.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 25, 2008, 08:21:43 PM
Quote from: Macrune on December 25, 2008, 08:13:54 PM
So are you happy for us to refine it before we send it to the corp then?
To be honest im not going to quible over a few hundred thousand .
I want to do it which ever way makes it less work for those in corp who will be sorting it.
So you tell me. raw ore or refined minerals and ill abide by that.


Pre-refined would be easier on everybody, although for massive volumes - say 500K units of each type of Ore or more, then Thera will gladly refine :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Macrune on December 25, 2008, 08:37:07 PM
Quote from: Mangala on December 25, 2008, 08:21:43 PM
Quote from: Macrune on December 25, 2008, 08:13:54 PM
So are you happy for us to refine it before we send it to the corp then?
To be honest im not going to quible over a few hundred thousand .
I want to do it which ever way makes it less work for those in corp who will be sorting it.
So you tell me. raw ore or refined minerals and ill abide by that.


Pre-refined would be easier on everybody, although for massive volumes - say 500K units of each type of Ore or more, then Thera will gladly refine :)

ok bud consider it done. ill refine unless its coming to you in huge amounts then ill leave it raw.  ;D
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: vacuum on December 26, 2008, 01:18:23 AM
You may find it's wort h creating a character purely for refinery; a little training and then it can be a non-training account with great use:

http://www.eve-guides.com/chargen/chargen.php

Code: 121123103200

Has refining V and Veldspar Processing IV

33 days according to EveMon to take Myenne (who is the build above + learning skills) to ScrapMetal IV
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 27, 2008, 08:58:37 AM
Quote from: Mangala on December 25, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
Quick seriousish post.

Mac recently setup a contract of unrefined ores to the corp.  I took those figures and plugged them into various tools to get the refined minerals total based on Thera's skills. Then plugged into it my spreadsheet (Sitting at the parents with not much to do right now :S) as well as added all my data for the differing yield types of minerals.

The attached sheet shows the difference between payout. Yes based on Thera refining, but even with subpar refining skills, taxes etc it looks like selling refined mins over ore itself (even if you do it yourself) wins out.

I'll pay out to Mac based on the refined total regardless :)

/me goes off to look for tea.



Err, isnt this just an issue about the payout price? I mean, isnt this just a complicated workaround to say that the payout should get maybe 90% in stead of 80%?
It seems that with current prices payout for mineral is ~20% higher than for ore. This would mean that payout should be about 80*1.2=96%, right?
So maybe just drop all the refinesteps in between, change payout for ore from 80% to 90 or 95 and Thera wont have to refine for indiviuals anymore (just the big batches the corp gets).
(not for selling to corp anyway)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on December 27, 2008, 10:09:21 AM
Keep it simple and have the same amount for both ore and mins.
The guys have enough to track already.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 27, 2008, 10:52:59 AM
well, what i mean is: let thera refine all. what i said was all about keeping it simple
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on December 27, 2008, 11:02:46 AM
I was thinking more about payout.
80% of the price is fair - and takes into account the corp making a slow/steady income/building stuff from the mins.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 27, 2008, 11:07:55 AM
I was talking about this:
Quote
I'll pay out to Mac based on the refined total regardless Smiley
Which IMO is the same as just paying a higher price for ore, as i tried to express in clear English 4 posts up from here...

I'm fine with 80%
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Macrune on December 28, 2008, 07:34:06 AM
Just pay us out at the ore prices.
I don't think anyone will quible over a difference in payout values. Keep it to the simple 80% formula after all any extra isk made after thera refines it will go into the corp coffers which benefits us all in the long run.
The first two amounts i put through were more for my own benefit in testing how i would do things. From now on ill be saving ores up until i have a minimum of 500000 units of each ore i contract back to the corp. Based on current levels of enjoyment and practicality i think the Corp has found along term miner in me  ::).
As i usually have 101 other things to do at the same time as playing this game (the price of having so many young children) i tend to semi afk mine anyway which i will continue to do in hi-sec. Lowsec will be a different matter :-\.
Not being to up on the manufacturing processes of building things I will probably find it difficult to judge the amounts of ore needed/wanted so if i start putting through to much of the basic ores please tell me. Ii don't want to take isk out of the corp by them paying for ores they don't need.
If there is a particular ore the corp wants more than others (not O.O yet please as im still a noob  ::)  ) let me know and ill hunt some out.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 28, 2008, 08:54:56 AM
Quote
Ii don't want to take isk out of the corp by them paying for ores they don't need.
This wont happen. The benefit of only paying 80% of price is that corp can sell ore/mins and make a profit - when it needs money.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on December 28, 2008, 10:13:36 AM
This is handy and worls with in-game: http://grismar.net/eve/ore/index.php
I think the Isk/M3 is out of date
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 29, 2008, 01:18:47 PM
Looks like the Kernite price in the sheet is off - at least the price of ordinary Kernite is way higher than the Fiery and Luminous variants, which, afaik, shouldn't be the case.

On the discussion above: imho we should find out what amount of minerals Thera (as our best refiner) can get out of the minerals.
Then we can simply calculate what the actual value of the raw minerals is for the corp. Set apart a small % for Thera refining (it should add up with large numbers anyway! - and payout the miner based on Thera's (good) refinery skills. Everybody wins. :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 29, 2008, 02:01:01 PM
Kernite prices are right. There is less of a buying demand for the better yield stocks of that ore - probably given the amount of regular kernite on the market its easier to just buy that in volume (I dont play the ore.mineral market much to know for certain) and use well skilled refiners than hunt down the better quality types in hisec (unlike veld etc Omber/Kernite +yield types arent as bountiful). When I put my notes together on this when prepping the figures, it was roughly 6:1 in favour or Kernite over each of its derivitives as far as amounts in buy orders went.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 29, 2008, 09:36:28 PM
odd.
Do the prices still fly when calculating it from the prices for refined products?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Jarkko on December 30, 2008, 08:08:03 AM
I contracted some stuff to the Corp yesterday. I wonder if I did it right...?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 30, 2008, 05:59:37 PM
I was offline earlyish y'day and at work all day today. I'll be home in around 30 min and check on the contract.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 30, 2008, 06:51:42 PM
Swuul offered some items that don't have a listing yet on contract.
Quote
Smashed Trigger Unit 11
Dark Compound 5
Burned Logic Circuit 3
Motley compound 6
Tripped power circuit 6
Condensed Alloy 42
Precious Alloy 72
Gleaming Alloy 49
Crystal Compound 32
Lucent Compound  31

I accepted his (your) contract, but didn't pay for these items yet.
Should I just take 80% of the current Jita prices, or shall I wait until you (Mang) add them to the list?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 30, 2008, 07:04:14 PM
Oops - thought I had all the salvage :S  Heres those 3 (had them in my list, but didnt copy them over - idiot that I can be!):

Smashed Trigger Unit 55.00 p/u is market  44.00 is corp

Burned Logic Circuit 66,210.86 p/u is market   52,968.68 is corp

Tripped power circuit 20,101.00 p/u is market   16,080.80

I'll update the spreadsheet with these after new years (sorry I hadnt had them in place sooner, lots of salvage to add :S)

The remaining items are drone alloys.  They refine down to minerals, Thera will refine them later and she'll payout on the mineral prices. (I'll grab some market data on drone alloys and get those set into the spreadsheet too after new years0.

Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Jarkko on December 31, 2008, 07:03:22 AM
So, does that mean I did the contract as I am supposed to do? Was there too little or too much stuff there?
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Gunnarr on December 31, 2008, 04:21:46 PM
I suppose you did the contract right, as 'stuff' showed up in the corp's contract screen. It's not really a matter of too much or too little stuff, but more of a case of the slacker in the corner office not setting prices yet for some of the items. ;)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Macrune on December 31, 2008, 05:17:19 PM
Ive started using these for my calculations.

This page to see what the current approx prices are and the trends http://cerlestes.de/eve/oretable/

and this into which i input the prices to see what the current best ore to mine (price per m3 mined). http://eve.grismar.net/ore/full.php

So far its done me proud and ive made a tidy profit   ;D . Im currently doing a 50 - 50 split in what i give to the corp and what i sell main stream. As i progress and get into a better mining setup that will swing more towards the corp getting most if not all.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on December 31, 2008, 05:44:02 PM
Quote from: Jarkko on December 31, 2008, 07:03:22 AM
So, does that mean I did the contract as I am supposed to do? Was there too little or too much stuff there?

Was done right Swuul - was just me forgetting drone poo and the last few bits of salvage ;D
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on December 31, 2008, 05:52:45 PM
Quote
http://cerlestes.de/eve/oretable/

tricky that the graphs are backwards  ;)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on March 23, 2009, 11:23:13 AM
I've put a few test buy orders up for corp at the MN Office station around the Corp Mineral Purchase Programme (MPP).

The buy order range is the station (to avoid hauling) and the price is determined by the mineral price programme (http://handsofjustice.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=530.0).
The initial buy order of Trit was a little (0.17 isk/pu) above that in the programme - just to get a little ahead of the game wrt trit as it's something we chew through quickly.

The general idea is two-fold:

So far the coverage of minerals is pretty small - but I'll be expanding it a little more as part of the test.
While I don't have great trade skills - they're ok (Accounting [4], Broker Relations [3], Margin Trading [3], Retail [3]) - but more than happy to hand it over should the trials show it to prove worthwhile.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: peo on March 23, 2009, 12:07:04 PM
Seems the buy order is already filled :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on March 23, 2009, 07:39:58 PM
Aye :) 

Did a quick test this evening - mining in a hulk and dropping into the Rorqual.
In 20 mins I generated 0.5M units of Veld (mix of Veld & concentrated Veld) - which multiplies up into 1.5m ore units/hour for a single hulk.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on March 23, 2009, 11:17:07 PM
= 4.5M trit ~ 15+ M isk

nice  :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on March 23, 2009, 11:26:54 PM
*grins*
Thinking just about the minerals for corp - not the income (as you can tell from my choice of veld).
9m trit for 2 hours grunt isn't bad :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 02, 2009, 12:02:34 PM
Ok - the POS is pretty much setup for construction now.
We're short on some of the minerals however - the most urgent being Zydrine (40k) and Megacyte (16k).

We are however in a region with Arkonor, Crokite, Bistot and Spodumain :)
According to my calculations - we need 16k of Crokite & 13k of Arkonor to obtain the volumes above.

Now ideally we can get this from a hidden belt - but that requires chance and it isn't a sure steady supply.
The nearest unrestricted system with crokite is 6/7 jumps away - and there are 2 restricted systems (2 [D-Q04X] and 3 [V6-NY1] jumps respectively) that have it.
I'll try to grab a SOT diplomat to see if I can arrange mining rights in those systems.

Now the volumes of Crokite & Arkonor are pretty large - so a standard hulk will only be able to hold 500 ore units and we would therefore need either the Rorqual or a maxed hauler.
Using a hauler is possible but introduces extra risk (due to the manual jumping needed) - the Rorqual can single jump between the POS system/office and the remote systems.
The unrestricted systems further out would need to be checked to see if they are cyno-jammed.
Otherwise we may need to see about setting up a small POS in WMH-SO or Y-2ANO.  Jumping in the Rorqual without having a POS would be risky.

Update: Contacted one of the diplomats in SOT about mining in the Minotaur constellation (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Fountain/Minotaur) and he's passed it up the food chain and will contact me when he has an answer.
I'll offer them a % of what's mined (I was thinking around 10%) in return for the rights to mine there.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 04, 2009, 07:12:21 PM
I've chatted with the SOT diplo but it's not proving fruitful at the mo - I've since contacted the diplo at PL to see if I can cut through the red tape but I'm not holding my breath.
As such I've scouted the WMH system which should allow cap jumps into/out-of and am considering anchoring a small POS with a hanger for storage.  This will allow a safe operating base for mining Crok, Ark & Ochre in the system and those surrounding it.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Warcold on April 04, 2009, 07:35:18 PM
wont 1) mining huge ammounts of veld, 2) selling half and 3) using the income to buy other mins be (part of) a solution too?
i know not much more than crap about industry logistics, so shoot me if i talk nonsense
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: peo on April 04, 2009, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: Warcold on April 04, 2009, 07:35:18 PM
wont 1) mining huge ammounts of veld, 2) selling half and 3) using the income to buy other mins be (part of) a solution too?
i know not much more than crap about industry logistics, so shoot me if i talk nonsense

The problem is moving the stuff.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on April 04, 2009, 08:23:26 PM
Hows the local market for buying oremins? anyone out there stupid enough to sell to us :D
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: peo on April 04, 2009, 08:51:14 PM
Lots of sell orders in the market at least.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 04, 2009, 09:41:00 PM
Moving them about is one approach - more realistic in 6d when I can compress.
The price for Zyd is pretty high - both the buy and sell price - and currently above the corp MPP.
I've resisted the temptation to buy the Zyd and Mega we need at the mo - it's 100m or so based on the Fountain market.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: peo on April 04, 2009, 09:48:13 PM
We do get some from the jaspet thats available.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 07, 2009, 07:21:12 PM
ok - finally!!

SOT have agreed to allow us to anchor a small POS in 4HS as a base for mining.
10% of the mineral proceeds are donated to them on the Monday of each week, contracted to the SOT diplo at the Domination station in WY-9LL.  Initially it's a trial - so we need to show willing and put on a good show.  I've bought the POS and guns from my own pocket - but if you don't mind the corp will fund the fuel.

I'd like to setup the POS tomorrow before DT - so some company/protection would be good.  I've a hauler ready but we'll be visiting a few stations along the way to grab the fuel/POS/modules/etc.
The operation is expected to take about 90 mins.  You'll need to be in combat ships with a little tackle fitted.  Anchor & Online time is 15 mins - and is when we'll be most at risk.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on April 07, 2009, 08:57:09 PM
Ideally corp should mine the fuel but needs must and Fountain is gallente tower ice mainly, so no issue from me on the corp paying for the fuel (although local prices: ouch)

I'll try to be done in Hisec before you start all this, I'll fag it up in the falcon :)
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 08, 2009, 02:12:27 AM
Couldn't sleep and it was quiet so I moved and setup the small Tower in 4HS at Planet 4 Moon 11.
You'll need to scout ahead and watch Sniggs for any intel on hostiles on the way.

So far the POS is up, most of the guns, hardeners and a webber - just a few more guns needed and some ammo - and then something to store the ore in.
Probably the ship assembly array we have spare at the mo in Z3.

She has 1d 16h of stront inside her - so she'll last if she gets jumped on.

Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 09, 2009, 12:12:22 AM
If somebody has a play in 4HS - can you check the other POS's in the system?
You're looking for a cyno jammer and to see if it's online.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Mangala on April 09, 2009, 05:41:14 AM
Having trouble jumping the Rorq over?

I'll be about later today, hopefully connection will be ok - I'll run down and have a look.

Anyone using my overview settings, Cyno structures are in the current PVE tab.
Title: Re: Ore & Minerals & Ma'adim
Post by: Rubino on April 09, 2009, 08:35:34 AM
Not tried yet - but it'll determine what I take over first.  A miner in a cyno ship or in a mining ship :)