Hands of Justice
What we have played => Warhammer Online => Topic started by: vacuum on October 15, 2008, 02:44:01 PM
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We're looking into the idea of an alliance with a couple of other guilds. This is purely to maximise our ability to coordinate large raids on keeps and fortresses (eventually).
So far, the lead runners are:
Black Regiment
Cry Havoc
Both of these guilds seem pretty good, and quite RVR oriented - we've also done some PVE with the Black Regiment.
Firstly, does anyone have any bad experiences with either of these guilds?
Secondly, namewise, we were thinking "The Black Hand" - does anyone have any reason this is inappropriate (e.g. in a specific country it means something VERY inappropriate etc. etc.).
Thanks,
Vac
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They started world war I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand).
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add, I don't know enough about alliance mechanics in WAR. Does it involve making any concessions within our current guild structure?
I don't have any negative experiences with either of those two guilds.
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No concessions no. I wouldnt enter into one if I thought that. I'm too much of a personality to be a follower in such situations any way :)
Prospective names: The Black Hand is if we go with an alliance thats solely with Black Regiment (Do we have a forum for these guys? website links? I'd like to know more about them than what I can glean off of a WHA search: not much; WARDB checkup, not many of them use the tool; ingame is all well and good but I need data!!! I'd love to know the gaming history of its members, do they get around the mmo-verse or did they all purely arena (lol) in world of warcraft...); If others were to come in then I'd be looking at other names (The Long Grudge, Karl's Irregulars - you get the idea, ones that dont highlight any member regiments over another)
As for negative experience none as such.
All I want is people willing to ORVR a good few nights a week, some afternoons and who generally understand that Open world RVR is what the game is about and wont panic at lousy odds or at being slaughtered by the zerg, and can follow DA PLAN! Willingness to whore scenarios is very very optional.
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I have never seen a <Black Regiment> player. Cry Havoc however I've seen and played with a lot in scenarios and PQs.
If we don't urgently need to commit ourselves let us get to know the other guilds a bit better before hooking up. Suggest ORVR evenings together etc.
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No bad experinces from either guild. Having seen all this alliance stuff in action already I can assure you it will work wonders filling out those RvR runs.. plus alliance chat is pretty cool :)
The Black Hand, nifty name.
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I think no matter who you go into an alliance with you do need to get some rules sorted out first.
Firstly, what are going to be the rules for alliance chat? Usually full members have read and talk access, but I have seen instances where 2 guilds with different outlooks on what was approriate had difficulties when it came to spamming /as with drivel. So sort out what alliance chat is going to be used for (just information regarding rvr, just sorting out general PvE/PvP groups, or a social channel as well).
Secondly you then need to sort out what happens if people DO abuse /as. Usually they just get the right to talk in it taken away:-) but thats something you need to sort out first. You don;t want people complaining about each other in alliance chat, so get rules regarding problems with other guilds members sorted as well. I know this all sounds very serious, but it will happen, so it is best to get an agreed way of dealing with it.
You can;t really get the background of all their members (I am looking at YOU Beo :-)) as long as you both know what the alliance is for and what you want to see happen in the common chat channels, you have a good start! I think it is important that the two gms see eye to eye on the above points, and have a good working relationship.
Once you have an alliance up and running, others will see it and then it can start to grow. Having a strong idea from the outset of the type of alliance (pure rvr only, social, PvE etc) will make it easier.
Just my two pence, I used to go to alliance meetings in lieu of my old DAoC guild, so kinda know how these things worked back then, but ofc, things may be different now.(nah its the same hehe)
Edit: Also it is worth sorting out who decides stuff or if it is purely a democatic alliance, eg what if one of the guilds fancies another guild joining.....do all guilds get to vote, what if only one says no? Its really worth thinking about stuff like that.
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What about the Sylvan Blades? Although they might be a bit large with 150-ish ppl.
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id say any problems with any member of an alliance guild, use our guidelines, try to solve it privately between the 2 aggrieved parties, be civil.
if no joys approach an officer and we will try to mediate the problem. We are all adults after all inevitably we will have the occasional misunderstanding, bust up etc. as long as there is no personal attacks in chat (public, private or otherwise) any problem can be dealt with without resorting to the ban stick.
I believe an alliance channel should be used for coordinating efforts getting PVE/RVR parties together the odd bit of cheerful spam etc. but not really intended for 100% social use gets busy and difficult to read :) god its bad enough with the npc spammage without adding more.
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What about the Sylvan Blades? Although they might be a bit large with 150-ish ppl.
Timer's a tit. I'd kibosh that on him alone. Otherwise a sound group of people in the main.
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All great points Nushka.
Firstly, what are going to be the rules for alliance chat? Usually full members have read and talk access, but I have seen instances where 2 guilds with different outlooks on what was approriate had difficulties when it came to spamming /as with drivel. So sort out what alliance chat is going to be used for (just information regarding rvr, just sorting out general PvE/PvP groups, or a social channel as well).
I'd prefer Alliance chat is kept clean of crap and useless stuff, some social stuff is ok, but not when you have people calling for reinforcements or organising a pve/scenario group and getting spammed out of the channel by people talking about their dinner or how leet they are and such.
Secondly you then need to sort out what happens if people DO abuse /as. Usually they just get the right to talk in it taken away:-) but thats something you need to sort out first. You don;t want people complaining about each other in alliance chat, so get rules regarding problems with other guilds members sorted as well. I know this all sounds very serious, but it will happen, so it is best to get an agreed way of dealing with it.
Abuse - anything on our members end, I'd firstly as you say remove the right to chat in that channel - after all we do have an image to think about (not sure what image, but we have one!), if it was severe enough invoke the community charter and remove them from the regiment if it came down to it. As for complaining that alliance members suck in that channel: Immediate loss of access, I may even remove /g from them too (without kicking them) for a while... Any issues someone does have with an alliance member, raise with myself, or caradir, keggi, vac etc and we'll raise it with their leadership (Unless the leadership is the issue!)
You can;t really get the background of all their members (I am looking at YOU Beo :-)) as long as you both know what the alliance is for and what you want to see happen in the common chat channels, you have a good start! I think it is important that the two gms see eye to eye on the above points, and have a good working relationship.
I know I cant know everything, but I dont feel comfortable when I cant see a community's web presence and stomp into it wearing hobnail boots! Vac is our diplomat at the moment, but once he has the groundwork settled, I'll be speaking with Clericia from the Black Regiment and sorting some some of these basics out, I'm thinking of running a couple of things with their guys and a ours see how well they perform outdoors and how well we play together in proper rvr :)
Edit: Also it is worth sorting out who decides stuff or if it is purely a democatic alliance, eg what if one of the guilds fancies another guild joining.....do all guilds get to vote, what if only one says no? Its really worth thinking about stuff like that.
I'd prefer all member regiments decide on new joiners, rather than it be a free for all. The regiments themselves can then decide within their own internal framework and advice their leadership on support or rejection of new guilds joining. I'd obviously stick with using you all (well the forum using minority) as a vote based advice group :)
(Forgive me if the answers aint that great, its early and I have like 5 things to do at once!)
(PS: I'll be reworking the regiment ranks later. Proper officer levels and such)
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I have no experiences (that I remember of) with Black Regiment. Doesn't ring a bell at all. Have they taken part in open RvR?
With Cry Havoc people I have quested, seen them in scenarios and they have members practically always present in the bigger ORvR encounters. Nothing bad to say about them, and I give them a high-five for effort :)
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Good feedback everyone - we will try to move the conversations with Orisha and 'Cry Havoc' forward as well.
Whilst we're keen to move forward with this to allow us to take the step forward in coordination, we want this to be a successful alliance and as such are in no rush.
We should also approach the Sylvan blades - who is their GM?
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Jalandariel
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Thanks, once the servers are back up, I'll send them an in-game mail.
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Remembering the issues from Eve - a second game channel is handy for alliance social chat. Keep the primary for call-to-arms, etc.
Do they use TS also? There's nothing more annoying than having multiple chat apps running and switching between them - it not only slows down forming groups but ends up with people relaying instructions. If you decide to merge TS servers - create separate sections for each guild and then sub-channels beneath for tasks/tiers. We should also have a DNS entry for our TS (rather than IP address) - a sub-domain such as ts.handsofjustice.co.uk is easier to remember than IP addresses.
It would also be handy to setup a separate forum for the alliance - it helps keep things clean should down the road things go pear shaped (thinking of accounts, rights, etc).
When setting up the alliance - treat it like a business - create a bunch of shares and split it how you want between the guild leads.
Treat these as voting rights. I know it sounds a little convoluted but it helps down the road as things expand and change.
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EvE really understood this stuff ... sadly most MMOs are significantly lacking from where EvE was years ago.
Maybe I should reactivate my old EvE account - see how the world's changed ..
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Sylvan Blades are known to myself and Nabal as they were a guild from our old server, and I have an old guildy in there. The head people are fine, I think they just grew a bit fast and picked up some baggage on the way.
Another guild you might want to look at is Soul Pact, I hear they are just starting on our server. They are a also from my old server, and a very respected guild indeed. Has older people in it, and are not growing too fast. I suspect they are not as casual as us, as before they were very active in RvR, but as time mellows all men I suspect they will have as well. I believe Tenpit is a gm. They will have a pvp/RvR slant.
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So, on the prospective list so far:
Cry Havoc - Orisha
Black Regiment - Clericia
Sylvan Blades - Jalandariel
Soul Pact - <TBD>
Any more that we should approach as prospective?
This isn't to say we MERGE with any of them. It's an alliance for mutual fun and profit.
Vac
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btw, here is a full list of the Karak-Hirn Order Guilds. Clicking one will show you the guild leader.
http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=10&filters=1003=39;1006=1#guilds:0+1 (http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=10&filters=1003=39;1006=1#guilds:0+1)
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Using the link posted above, i had a quick look on those guilds' members. Both Black Regiment and Cry Havoc seem to be light on healers and okey-ish on tanks. Black Regiment is very heavy on WHs, Cry Havoc has lotsa BWs and also a number of IBs. Their size and average member lvl seem to match ours pretty well. The Sylvan Blades is quite bigger that us and they have several lvl 40 players already. On the other hand they seem to have better balanced career setup.
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Sounds a great concept, but i'm going to ask stupid questions now and i'm too lazy to search for the answers..
Edit: I read http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance (http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance) and got majority of the answers myself
So..
1) After forming the Alliance, does our guild-name change to show the Alliance name? or displayed-at-all?
2) Assuming that a Guild can only take over a Fort, not an Alliance, does this create complications on joint-ventures?
Apologise if they were previously answered!
PS. I think Alliance name should be either "Rebel Army" or "Alliance", forcing the Destruction alliance to be either "Dark Side" or "Horde" :)
Envicta.
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1)NO the new name is alliance name not guild
2) No only merged in an agreement to team up to help the war
3) no idea
4) no affect on the guild chain of command, alliance issues i imagine as per leader officer discussions
5) easier to take keeps as we will have allies to call on to arrange tactics, more manpower etc
6) no idea ill need to read about
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Good feedback everyone - we will try to move the conversations with Orisha and 'Cry Havoc' forward as well.
Whilst we're keen to move forward with this to allow us to take the step forward in coordination, we want this to be a successful alliance and as such are in no rush.
We should also approach the Sylvan blades - who is their GM?
I'll bet 1c that Sylvan are already allied with other guilds. <EDITED myself here>
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Remembering the issues from Eve - a second game channel is handy for alliance social chat. Keep the primary for call-to-arms, etc.
Do they use TS also? There's nothing more annoying than having multiple chat apps running and switching between them - it not only slows down forming groups but ends up with people relaying instructions. If you decide to merge TS servers - create separate sections for each guild and then sub-channels beneath for tasks/tiers. We should also have a DNS entry for our TS (rather than IP address) - a sub-domain such as ts.handsofjustice.co.uk is easier to remember than IP addresses.
It would also be handy to setup a separate forum for the alliance - it helps keep things clean should down the road things go pear shaped (thinking of accounts, rights, etc).
When setting up the alliance - treat it like a business - create a bunch of shares and split it how you want between the guild leads.
Treat these as voting rights. I know it sounds a little convoluted but it helps down the road as things expand and change.
2nd channel would help really, but only when they let channels be persistent, otherwise those on less friendly terms with the UI will never join it...
TS - isnt hosted on this package its from a third party other my website hosts, so not sure how to make that domain stuff work (PM me with a brief how to if it can be done easily?)
Forum: See below. I'm not paying for another hosting package (I have 3 already: Business, Personal and this sort of). So a forum section on here will have to be it until I can be bothered! Also, I can ban all the non-hoj forum users in an alliance in one go. I have that all setup and ready to roll :)
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I can ban all the non-hoj forum users in an alliance in one go. I have that all setup and ready to roll :)
not that you like power Jon you megalomaniac you :P
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I would like an alliance of equals - on my Chosen alt (which I dont really play so much) the guild was in an alliance with the largest guild on the server. They basically used us to run suicide diversions while they capped other keeps, thinking that they were somehow the leaders. We left pretty quickly.
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no need to worry jeremiah we dont do follow the leader, and ive known Jon (Beosvir) for a few years now he has "problems" doing that so he would soon sort it anyways ;)
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no need to worry jeremiah we dont do follow the leader, and ive known Jon (Beosvir) for a few years now he has "problems" doing that so he would soon sort it anyways ;)
Its a positive personality trait, not a problem ;)
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Hope for the best - plan for the worst :)
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I've been on one Gunbad run with The Slyvan Blades I didn't see any problems but then I didn't sign up with them either :)
Timers in their guild and I'm not currently a fan but I've not talked to the guy so I can't really judge.
Plus as has been said I would be surprised to find they arn't already allied.
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Aye Sylvans are allied with CLA already and others.
Anyways I did this over on WHA (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2220981):
Death Or Glory (Alliance Recruitment)
Hello Karak Hirn!
My name is Beosvir, I am the Regiment Leader of the Hands of Justice and we are looking for other similar sized Regiments to form an Alliance with. We have around 90 members not including alts and are pretty active from midday through to midnight, with smaller numbers outside of those times being found online.
As we have leveled, many of us have found a taste for Open World RVR, and we are looking for Regiments who are interested in the same in order to make the map blue again! Recently we have found ourselves embroiled in the numerous large scale fights in Avelorn, as well as smaller stuff in High Pass and Black Fire Pass which saw us back and forth with much larger Destruction Warbands and hold the field for long periods of time, before they really ramped it up and swamped us with Sorceress's and Black Orcs...
Many of us have proper realmwide PVP experience from Planetside, Dark Age of Camelot and EVE Online, and as such I feel we can be considered to be well versed in large scale warfare and the tactics & strategy to be used, even if currently Destruction use the old numbers game to bypass that!
Should you be a Regiment looking for an alliance we can offer:
* Regular Open RVR: be it a night of easy mode keep defence, or full on multiple warband slaughterfests;
* an alliance section on our forum to discuss and arrange organised sieges as well as AAR impromptu nights of fun;
* Alliance leadership forum section. I want this to be an alliance of equals so all command members from all member regiments will have the necessary access to this section;
* access to voice communications (Teamspeak) to make co-ordination much more viable;
* Lots of theorycrafting about game mechanics (we do that alot);
* Scenario and PVE groups for when we just want to relax and get to know one another;
Should any of this interest you, register on our forums and make yourself known in the recruitment section using the Alliance Recruitment sticky post in that section as your template.
I look forward to hearing from any interested parties and to forming this Alliance to take some Destro heads soon!
An advert for an alliance, looking for interested regiments that way as well as via ingame means (which are a little restrictive to be totally honest). I chose the name :) Looked through a list of British Army Regiment nicknames and reworked The Death or Glory Boys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Royal_Lancers) as it has a nice ring to it when you consider the odds we have on the open field!!
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Nice work, you've been busy :-)
Not around much this weekend - but in and out occasionally.
No rush to level till you guys hit T4 anyway :-))
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Went back to The Black Hand.
We are in an alliance!!!!!!
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Cry Havoc joined this evening.
They bring more active players to the table, and lots of rvr lovers too :)
Feel free to ad events to the calendar that are open to the alliance, and as per I have said elsewhere, if you have a need to speak in /a to organise an impropmtu thing then let me know and I'll see what i can do.
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So its a three guild alliance now?
very nice. I look forward to getting back into the thick of things either tonight or tommorrow. now that i hopefully have several days off work before starting nights on friday ::)
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Its back up and running after our little hiccups earlier in the week guys, so please remember to visit the new forum for it:
http://theblackhandalliance.co.uk/forum/index.php
I eventually hope to not just have our allies posting there - a seperate forum was better in the end as it makes all involved guilds feel alot more equal than for example myself or Cry havoc running a forum section... - but other Order players from Karak Hirn in the hope we can get DA PLAN rolling on a grand scale. When we actually figure out DA PLAN!
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Well, alliance topic again. And recruitment, too.
Few days ago i met a guy from <Black Regiment> in a scenario. Unfortunately I don't remember the name. I commented that there aren't many of them around and he replied that the guild had been disbanded. Obviously, they still exist formally, but effectively the guild is no more. This leads me to the question: shall we try to enlarge our alliance?
Somewhat related topic: our guild is too small IMO. We have barely enough ppl to get one party for Bastion Stair or Mount Gunbad, or to make a group for TA farming (if a scenario can be farmed). There isn't enough ppl to do ORvR ... well *possibly* if we combine our T3 and T4 population, once the former levels up. There a few to none new applications recently. Does it make sence to start talking about potential guild merges?
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I've played and chatted with some guys from "We Respect Your Feelings" - they play well & I've seen a fair number of them around the realm.
Their Officer/GM contact is Drave but I've not been able to reach them yet.
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Good points Pyth, something id been dwelling on - especially the BR, as I'd noticed Clericia's name had vanished from the alliance roster
Certainly want to enlarge the alliance - and make people more active within that framework. More appealing than the zerg guild route at any rate.
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Made post on the alliance board to get some discussion.
So please sign up if you havent already and get involved.
http://theblackhandalliance.co.uk/forum/index.php
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saw clericia in a scenerio 4 days ago was in another guild but cant remember which.
valravens is the guild. :)
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Nice of them to let us know ::)