Hands of Justice
What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: Mangala on July 22, 2010, 08:58:19 PM
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That is all.
(Ive been looking at alterations to it offline - using screenies of it so I dont break it - and I can forsee weeks of pain from playing with it right now. And then more pain sorting hangars out all over the place..) (This thread will become about changes as and when I like them etc).
Which reminds me, I need to take a pilot on a wander and shut down our offices - unless we can do that remotely, as we dont need all we have?
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That is all.
(Ive been looking at alterations to it offline - using screenies of it so I dont break it - and I can forsee weeks of pain from playing with it right now. And then more pain sorting hangars out all over the place..) (This thread will become about changes as and when I like them etc).
Which reminds me, I need to take a pilot on a wander and shut down our offices - unless we can do that remotely, as we dont need all we have?
Sadly, yes you need to go to the station in person :( at least you won't have to to to fountain as I was there to do that a while back.
But while we don't need most of the places, is there a reason behind removing them? (they cost at most 500k/month iirc)
And yes, the corp ui sucks donkeys scrotum...
Why CCP can't fix that is beyond me as it would take hardly any time.
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its not the cost, is just no reason to keep what we dont use anymore, and given people no longer need to apply at an office now even less reason for the outlying ones.
ideally we need kasrasi, antirri (for now), and a derelik lowsec office possibly (more on that when i firm my thoughts up) and thats pretty much it.
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Hangar Changes.
If we are to expand then we need to revisit hangars and access to them, as well as changing the names of some of them. (Titles will get access to increasing numbers of hangars - either view or full access depending on whats needed).
1. We'll need a hangar for people to drop random T1 stuff they dont want and can take from if they need - this should be accessible to all from the get go. Maybe include the ammo hangar too.
2. Next step could be access to the ships hangar - we can keep it stocked with Cruisers and Frigs, and throw in BC's as people buy them off us, if we get things made on request?
3. Blueprints - BPO/BPC. For some titles this can be view, so they can ask for stuff to be built, for the rest it can be use (to build with) and build should be a role it takes time to earn, otherwise we just lock everything down if its a BPO. Have minerals and Salvage here too for the builders.
4. Tower Fuel - only people with tower roles to access this?
Not sure what to do with rest yet.
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Wallets.
Can be kept how they are, but really need to see who can access what and why - again this should be solved with titles really.
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If we give people roles by title rather than roles per se, it will be easier to manage and less fucks ups too I think. Less chance at theft - although with me doing the interviewing it should be hard for anyone to join :D
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And CCP needs to let us assign permissions by station - all stations we have offices at - not just hq, based at and other!
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Sounds fair enough. Possibly one hangar tab for caps when we get such a program up and running (would of course be very limited access to that as it would contain finished capitals as we talked about with cap replacment ideas, I suppose just directors? since it is about handing out lost cap hulls to cap pilots)
One for moongoo in general, could of course be connected to the tower fuel one.
One question is, hangartabs in towers.
Lets say we have a hangar at a tower, it gets the same tabs (as does all corp hangar ships like carriers etc), how will permissions affect that?
The wallets are ok as is, the most important ones are master and ship replacement given the cash in them.
In general few should have access to wallets. Most have little need to be able to buy or take from them. Look at (audit?) is fine but probably not needed. Main reason is so that people don't think we do warfare in the future to enrichen the leadership (well we do I hope ;) )
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Lets say we have a hangar at a tower, it gets the same tabs (as does all corp hangar ships like carriers etc), how will permissions affect that?
Still not sure about that - i'll see what i can figure out. May come under pos roles itself...
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Hangar Changes.
If we are to expand then we need to revisit hangars and access to them, as well as changing the names of some of them. (Titles will get access to increasing numbers of hangars - either view or full access depending on whats needed).
1. We'll need a hangar for people to drop random T1 stuff they dont want and can take from if they need - this should be accessible to all from the get go. Maybe include the ammo hangar too.
2. Next step could be access to the ships hangar - we can keep it stocked with Cruisers and Frigs, and throw in BC's as people buy them off us, if we get things made on request?
3. Blueprints - BPO/BPC. For some titles this can be view, so they can ask for stuff to be built, for the rest it can be use (to build with) and build should be a role it takes time to earn, otherwise we just lock everything down if its a BPO. Have minerals and Salvage here too for the builders.
4. Tower Fuel - only people with tower roles to access this?
Hangar system right now:
Modules
Manufactory
Ships
Books Implants Random
BPO
BPC
Munitions
Think BPO & BPC should be merged. We can can the BPC's and lock down the BPO's.
BIR Can stay named that and be the entry hangar for new folks - i'll recheck the contents and such later and move stuff around. And I'll move the t1 modules into it too (everything else necessary in their is canned anyways).
Ships - can stay
Manufactory I think is perfect as is - mins, tower stuff, salvage etc all for building/fuel and such.
Munitions - can stay as is.
Leaving us two hangars to deal with once ive moved stuff and renamed etc.
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NOOOOO dont merge BPO/BPC!
As long as the icons for them are the same this would suck. Esp. regarding the time I put in to split it all.
If we need to move stuff around, decide to up the ME/PE on stuff, etc. you will regret putting them in one bin.
For what it's worth, I'd vote against...
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NOOOOO dont merge BPO/BPC!
As long as the icons for them are the same this would suck. Esp. regarding the time I put in to split it all.
If we need to move stuff around, decide to up the ME/PE on stuff, etc. you will regret putting them in one bin.
For what it's worth, I'd vote against...
Im station canning things by type, so module bpc, module bpo etc etc etc etc
It may be early, but im thinking ok.
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NOOOOO dont merge BPO/BPC!
As long as the icons for them are the same this would suck. Esp. regarding the time I put in to split it all.
If we need to move stuff around, decide to up the ME/PE on stuff, etc. you will regret putting them in one bin.
For what it's worth, I'd vote against...
Im station canning things by type, so module bpc, module bpo etc etc etc etc
It may be early, but im thinking ok.
From what I remember, builders hate BPO/Cs in cans because then they cant remote build anymore.
It's one hour later here... You are excused :D
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They can take them out and use them then put them back - like we do in kasei with bps etc.
Im not giving build roles to people as soon as they join, will always be a trustworthy position.
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They can take them out and use them then put them back - like we do in kasei with bps etc.
can't do that remotely, but I'll stop trying to be smart now
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im not going to build anything, however putting BPs of any sort in cans is truly bothersome for builders, as saf says cannot remove from cans remotely
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im not going to build anything, however putting BPs of any sort in cans is truly bothersome for builders, as saf says cannot remove from cans remotely
Im doing this to avoid 000's of lockdown votes on everything (since we cant lockdown everything in a selection on 1 vote) - worse than the PI clickspam it would be.
I have to think of ways to keep access limited and secure going forward, and unfortunatly shitty corp interface with shitty rules gets in the way. So im making it up as I go along - kinda like ccp does.
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but wouldnt having a separate BPO tab 'solve' theft-threat just as well (at the cost of one tab ofc)?
could ofc put the more expensive BPOs (BS and up?) in a separate password-protected can, so builders with access will have to go to station for those builds, but not for the most regular builds?
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One thing, why would people remote build in derelik? (max remote build is region wide iirc). The only use for remote building i can see is when we build caps in lowsec and thats all bpc's which would need to be moved to a build site.
In our Derelik ops - the mission system people occasionally use is 5 jumps out, 5 jumps is nothing, and we dont use anywhere else in Derelik for anything (we are sat near enough the regions edge).
And wouldnt mats and bps all need to be in the same hangar to build from? (Im rusty on building), which makes things even more annoying doesnt it?
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My knowledge stops here too.
All I know is that Jere remote built quite a lot, so I hope he can shine some light on the matter.
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Don't think you need to have them in the same tab... but unsure.
TBH most bpos shouldn't be in derelik (or wherever we end up eventually) anyways should they? Building should in general take place from bpcs. BPOs should be in KASEI being copied.
The only bpos that are used for building are capitals (which are easily enough locked as they are fairly few) and rigs.
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Firmly staying in Derelik forever, regardless of anything that happens in the future. Im not moving the corps assets again.
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Unrented Antti V-14 and Kubinen station today.
They still appear on assets list, but suppose they will disappear when the month of rent ends.
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Unrented Antti V-14 and Kubinen station today.
They still appear on assets list, but suppose they will disappear when the month of rent ends.
Awesome :)
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Alperaute and Pashanai closed too.
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So, how about we go back to 2 hangars for bp's, but not bpc/bpo but bp storage and bp for use?
Then we just ensure that builders etc have access to use and when shit needs doing just dump bp's of either class into it?
(we have 2 spare hangars now you see)...
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Well it all hinges on how we decide to allocate BPOs between KASEI/MAADI
(Especially if you move KASEI to Derelik as you suggested ingame) putting all BPOs within KASEI would solve all tbh - someone stealing all BPCs would be unfortunate, but not a huge loss, 100-200M max I guess
Your proposal makes some sense, but I don't see it's merrits over BPO/BPC. But maybe that is because I don't really get your thoughts behind this way of doing things. Forgive me, I'm a bit dull today(?).
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I just dont see the point on a hangar for bpos and a hangar for bpcs, when we can just use cans and 1 hangar.
And then have a hangar to be used for placing bp's that we need stuff building from whether its copies (ships and such) or originals (rigs etc). This way the builders can still build remotely if necessary, and I get my peace of mind*
Means we can sit securely on all blueprints, and only risk losing what we dump in the "build jobs" hangar.
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I just dont see the point on a hangar for bpos and a hangar for bpcs, when we can just use cans and 1 hangar.
And then have a hangar to be used for placing bp's that we need stuff building from whether its copies (ships and such) or originals (rigs etc). This way the builders can still build remotely if necessary, and I get my peace of mind*
Means we can sit securely on all blueprints, and only risk losing what we dump in the "build jobs" hangar.
Ok, I get that. The thing that worries me about your go at it (storage vs. use), is the micromanagement it will take plus and including the inevitable mixing up of BPs (what was supposed to be where etc.)
I think we need to get clear what we want to want to achieve with having 2 hangars or 1 hangar with cans. If it's theft protection we need to find out a way to tweak access of various titles/roles. If it's a clearer overview of all the BPs we got, we need to come up with a good way to separate BPs (but you've already done that with cans - however: remote building).
I don't see how giving all builders access to BPCs and trusted builders (B&C and Jere for starters) access to BPO. It won't fix getting clear what we got and how much, but it will solve theft protection simple and elegantly I think (while still making remote building possible)
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Been thinking about this. Its possible I was thinking of security possibilities over utility, and my own peace of mind over ease of use for people.
So, Im gonna stick with one hangar + cans for storage and some use, but change things up slightly.
All BPO's that we have in MAADI - a number I hope to increase over time as KASEI sitting with BPO's doing not much (especially if we already have lots of copies of said BPO) isnt a good thing - will be removed from cans and locked down in the BP hangar. That way they can be used by people we trust not to fuck us over, and still maintain my peace of mind in that nothing goes walkies without my say so (major shareholder who is active>all as U'K shouldve known!!!).
Majority of copies can be kept in cans in that hangar. However, say 3 of each type of copy (noncap bp's - all of those will be moved to a new lowsec station and left in then main bp hangar) can be dumped in the second hangar and used by anyone who can build (we can two tier building thanks to the way hangar permissions work). As those copies in the that hangar run out, open cans and replace.
So not much management = 5mins of work for me (since by the time this goes live, i'll have 2 alts living in kasrasi anyways), and I still get my security.
tl:dr
Kasrasi hangar 1: bpos out in the open under lockdown votes; BPC's in cans. Trusted builders able to access this hangar.
Kasrasi hangar 2: 3 of each type of bpc sitting out in the open (ammo, ship, drone basically) for anyone with correct privileges to use.
Lowsec Derelik office hangar 1. Cap parts bpc's and cap ship bpc's sitting and useable by trusted cap builders.
Not a return to 2 hangars by bp class, but a compromise.
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Sounds good.
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FYI
1. MODS CHARGES. Cans with T1 mods by slot. Cans with Ammo by type.
2. MANUFACTORY. Cans for Salvage. Cans for Refining. Cans for POS Fuel. Cans for Sleeper shits. And minerals laying around loose on the floor.
3. SHIPS. T1 Ships. (may keep x amount in here, and the rest in a restricted hangar)
4. BOOKS IMPLANTS RANDOM. What it says. Tags, books, implants etc
5. BLUEPRINTS. Cans of BPC's. Increasing number of BPO's under lockdown votes. Will be restricted to 3 groups (me, directors and trusted folks)*
6. BPC BUILDS. Lots of random bpcs but not the whole lot. Open to 4 groups most likely.
7. RESTRICTED. Hold caps, t2 ships, expensive shit.
*At a potential lowsec office in Derelik will also hold cap ship, cap module and cap part bpc's on its floor for cap building.
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Sounds very good to me :) thanks for the hard work.
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FYI
1. MODS CHARGES. Cans with T1 mods by slot. Cans with Ammo by type.
2. MANUFACTORY. Cans for Salvage. Cans for Refining. Cans for POS Fuel. Cans for Sleeper shits. And minerals laying around loose on the floor.
3. SHIPS. T1 Ships. (may keep x amount in here, and the rest in a restricted hangar)
4. BOOKS IMPLANTS RANDOM. What it says. Tags, books, implants etc
5. BLUEPRINTS. Cans of BPC's. Increasing number of BPO's under lockdown votes. Will be restricted to 3 groups (me, directors and trusted folks)*
6. BPC BUILDS. Lots of random bpcs but not the whole lot. Open to 4 groups most likely.
7. UNUSED2. Most likely to become a special restricted hangar. Hold caps, t2 ships, expensive shit.
*At a potential lowsec office in Derelik will also hold cap ship, cap module and cap part bpc's on its floor for cap building.
:-*
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Sounds very good to me :) thanks for the hard work.
This was the easy bit.
Got titles to do next :)