Hands of Justice
What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: Mangala on June 17, 2010, 02:30:57 PM
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Im building a list - and checking it twice...
Battleship:
Armageddon: 12 cost, 41 payout;
Pest: 20 cost, 68 payout;
Rokh: 32 cost, 106 payout;
Domi: 12 cost, 40 payout;
Apoc: 21 cost, 72 payout;
'Phoon: 14.5 cost, 48 payout;
Mael: 29 cost, 97 payout;
Battlecruiser:
Cyclone: 4.6 cost, 15 payout;
Harb: 8.5 cost, payout 28.3;
Prophecy: 5.6 cost, payout 18.6;
Ferox: 4.6 cost, payout 15.4;
Drake: 7.3 cost, payout 24.6;
Hurricane: 7.5 cost, payout 25;
Myrm: 7.8 cost, payout 26.0;
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If you have any BC or Bs kicking about - do a fake insurance for me to get the Platinum cost at least?
Thanks awfully chaps.
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iirc the payout is dependent on market prices (so fluctuating). the fee seems to be 30% of payout
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iirc the payout is dependent on market prices (so fluctuating). the fee seems to be 30% of payout
Ouchies. I'll figure something out then regards a system for this.
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drake earlier this month (june 6th): 7,340,481 - 24,468,270
cyclone: 4,629,387.60 - 15,431,292
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The insurance is supposed to be tied to mineral value in some way. It is updated at some unknown interval, possibly manually triggered on iceland.
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So - looked at several BC and they all seem to come in at under 12mill to insure with a payout around 25-35 depending on tier. So, rather than going with a ever changing figure as payout, Saf and I are looking at say a fixed payout of 15million isk to insure?
This way you can purchase a fresh BC from the market with the payout and with what we give you can fit it (or at least cover some of the fit) again.
For BS, Its suggested around 30 or 40 mill is the payout. We have these insurance costs for some BS already which suggests this idea:
'Pest: 20 cost, 68 payout;
Rokh: 32 cost, 106 payout;
Domi: 12 cost, 40 payout;
Apoc: 21 cost, 72 payout;
We can revise these as and when the market takes a nosedive or goes up and prices change. Fixed prices also mean that if costs are somehow linked to regional markets, then we are covered for local variations, especially in smaller more remote regions.
We could also make the odd BC/BS and sell them to members at whatever the creation cost is? Should cover alot of the cost too?
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We could also make the odd BC/BS and sell them to members at whatever the creation cost is? Should cover alot of the cost too?
Is already in place - have most BPOs(/BPCs) and have Tyr keeping an eye on stock.
Regarding BS prices, it's a hard one, with Tier 1-3 lying so far apart pricewise. 30 would not even cover the cost to insure for a Rokh it seems...
Could split Tier 1-3. Will get a bit more hassle-ish, but at least less so than before CCP 'broke' insurance.
Will try to get more data for BSs, I have all 3 Minnie variations lying around here and there.
(could do split tier thing for BCs too)
thoughts?
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Harb: 8.5m cost, payout 28.3m;
Prophecy: 5.6m cost, payout 18.6m;
Ferox: 4.6m, payout 15.4m;
Drake: 7.3m cost, payout 24.6m;
With costs for an replacement (off market) being at most 5-10million more depending on region.
So we could do a multi tier across the board? say 15 for Tier 1 BC, 25 for Tier 2 BC. And then something similar for BS, or just say 40 for BS and leave it at that? (although need to see all the insurance figures for that class first).
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Always KISS principle :P
(me stupid yha ´now)
Serioiusly, sounds ok.
The build thing is already in place as saf mentioned, we sell stuff to corpmembers at corp mineral cost (so a 10% subsidy on minerals and 100% of the blueprint and build cost, usually end up a fairly nice price tbh)
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Been thinking about this a touch more.
25 for Tier 2 BC;s seems a bit much looking at the figures for Tier 2 BC insurance costs. So rather than two different figures, lets just give 18? its a nice balance imo - especially considering you can pick up a drake for around 25 in the major hubs and probably a touch under it from us.
Battleships Im tempted to just say fuck it and stick at 40mill.
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Well the only issue (and I havn't kept tabs on prices for ships at all for a while) I can see is that we want "risk-free" pvp. The loss of a ship in pvp should be very low, if any, so depending on the price of the ship we might end up with a not "risk-free" enough replacement system.
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Primarily I just want be able to know members can replace the fit, since their insurance payout will cover the ship in 90% of cases. And if we can go aways towards it with what we give then good.
Which is as risk free as it should be.
I dont want people relying on us to totally replace everything for them, they can make their own isk and spend some of that (said from a rich mans POV I know) on the remainder of the fit we dont help with iskwise. Caps is an exception that we can look at going forward.
Its not like theres any group out there that replaces everything under caps totally and utterly anyways. Even uber rich folks like PL, CH, IT etc dont do it. They expect a certain degree of self-sufficiency and I agree with it - im sure we all do for sub cap pvp :)
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Yup after all if you cant afford to lose it dont fly it.
The way i see it the corp payouts allow you to fly a slightly more expensive fit than you would perhaps usually, adding an extra few % to your damage/survivability etc
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Well the only issue (and I havn't kept tabs on prices for ships at all for a while) I can see is that we want "risk-free" pvp. The loss of a ship in pvp should be very low, if any, so depending on the price of the ship we might end up with a not "risk-free" enough replacement system.
Shouldnt you be working ;)
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Well the only issue (and I havn't kept tabs on prices for ships at all for a while) I can see is that we want "risk-free" pvp. The loss of a ship in pvp should be very low, if any, so depending on the price of the ship we might end up with a not "risk-free" enough replacement system.
Shouldnt you be working ;)
Had to wait for a correction in the database when i fecked up :P
Takes 5-15min.
And now I'm out of stuff to do hehe.
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Yup after all if you cant afford to lose it dont fly it.
frigate fleets are go!
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Typhoon 14.5-48
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Armageddon 12m pays 41 mil.
Cost in Jita 39m. so you lose about 10 mill per hulkageddon kill + mods. Woot
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Still think insurance is odd.
Pay 1.1 mill to insure a ruppie at plat for a 3.8 payout. I actually get 1.7 when it dies. And on the regional market ruppies are going for around 4-5 mill....
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I'll get the Gall bs/bc costs later on this weekend (Since that seems to be mostly what we are missing).
We need a figure for both classes though and tbh i think 18million (which is nearly double the insurance cost of a new t1 bc) for BC's and 40 for a BS is going to be best. (Rokhs the most expensive to insure (and purchase) so using that 40 for a BS makes sense).
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So im making a decision here - since we need one making.
BC - We give you 18million when you lose one in PVP. This covers the insurance cost, and potentially some of the fit.
BS - We give you 40million when you lose one in PVP. This covers the insurance cost, and potentially some of the fit. In some cases it covers the Ship cost itself from market (go go 40million isk Domi's!)
We can look again at these figures in 6months, since if they need adjusting due to possible market differences or not. But take them as done.
T2 ships on the other hand should work on this scale:
T2 frig hulls - we give 10million when it dies. Its enough to refit mainly, cost should always be the players worry here.
T2 cruiser hulls - we give 20million when it dies. Again enough to refit pretty much.
Still insure the ships, its usually under 2million isk and you get a couple of mods worth of shit back.
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T2 ships on the other hand should work on this scale:
T2 frig hulls - we give 10million when it dies. Its enough to refit mainly, cost should always be the players worry here.
T2 cruiser hulls - we give 20million when it dies. Again enough to refit pretty much.
DICs go per frig hull and command ships per cruiser hull? Or would you say they fall in different categories?
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T2 ships on the other hand should work on this scale:
T2 frig hulls - we give 10million when it dies. Its enough to refit mainly, cost should always be the players worry here.
T2 cruiser hulls - we give 20million when it dies. Again enough to refit pretty much.
DICs go per frig hull and command ships per cruiser hull? Or would you say they fall in different categories?
Forgot those.
Dictors in with frigs yeah.
CS - new category.
Im avoiding T2 BS for now.
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T2, we give the market value (Jita rate of the ship) plus the following:
T2 frig & destroyer hulls - we give 10million when it dies. Its enough to refit.
T2 cruiser hulls - we give 20million when it dies. Again enough to refit pretty much.
T2 battlecruiser hulls - we give 30million when it dies. Should cover links and any mindlinks the pilot may have lost.
Went with this - and I recalled from the other thread saying we'd buy the replacement ship + give them isk - was that wise, or should we stick with it so as to actually have something going forward from now.
Personally im in favour of utility T2's being bought by us on a replacement basis + some isk given for fits and the rest just getting isk after a loss, and getting own ship (anyone who flies non-utility t2 should be able to afford it themselves imo).
Utility = logistics, inties, dics, hics, and possibly CS.
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And a note on PVP - I wont accept replacing stuff when people are say in a missioning ship and get ganked in hisec for whatever reason. Including if they undock in a mission ship during war! (would probably be me killing them as a lesson!).
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T2, we give the market value (Jita rate of the ship) plus the following:
T2 frig & destroyer hulls - we give 10million when it dies. Its enough to refit.
T2 cruiser hulls - we give 20million when it dies. Again enough to refit pretty much.
T2 battlecruiser hulls - we give 30million when it dies. Should cover links and any mindlinks the pilot may have lost.
Went with this - and I recalled from the other thread saying we'd buy the replacement ship + give them isk - was that wise, or should we stick with it so as to actually have something going forward from now.
Personally im in favour of utility T2's being bought by us on a replacement basis + some isk given for fits and the rest just getting isk after a loss, and getting own ship (anyone who flies non-utility t2 should be able to afford it themselves imo).
Utility = logistics, inties, dics, hics, and possibly CS.
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And a note on PVP - I wont accept replacing stuff when people are say in a missioning ship and get ganked in hisec for whatever reason. Including if they undock in a mission ship during war! (would probably be me killing them as a lesson!).
Logistics and interdictors of both types are probably important enough to warrant replacement in full and supply from corp stock (I think that at least most serious alliances/corps replace hics that way due to their well stupifyingly high importance in 0.0 warfare)
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Yeah my thoughts too on that at least, which is why i dropped in the codicil. Doesnt mean everyone should show up ready to fly them mind ;)
T2 is a difficult one to do, as we want people to fly it comfortable that when it dies, it wont hurt too much, but I dont want us splashing cash all over t2 just because either... T2 itself does add extra umph on the field, although not so much in hi/low as 0.0.
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Yeah my thoughts too on that at least, which is why i dropped in the codicil. Doesnt mean everyone should show up ready to fly them mind ;)
T2 is a difficult one to do, as we want people to fly it comfortable that when it dies, it wont hurt too much, but I dont want us splashing cash all over t2 just because either... T2 itself does add extra umph on the field, although not so much in hi/low as 0.0.
True.
Currently I suspect that we have fairly few that can fly hics (you and well soonish Linnea are the only ones I can think of) similar with logistics.
Logistics are probably more important for us atm if we roam more in low sec? Although I hope we can do more 0.0 if we grow at which point it becomes more important with hics/dics.
Normal t2 (AF/HACS/CS) while good and all that doesn't bring THAT much more compared to a frigs or bc's. Command ships are quite situational as well, they boost good but I suspect they work best in larger fleets (more than 4-5 at least ;) ) given that the added boost might not be enough compared to another combat ship?
For us at the moment I suspect that BC fleets with some support is what is important to get replacment on rather than marauders ;)
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Saf will be in HICs pretty soon and will also train logistics to 4 or 5 not long after. Armor repping logistics will take some more time for him though (Amarr cruiser V ::)).
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Saf will be in HICs pretty soon and will also train logistics to 4 or 5 not long after. Armor repping logistics will take some more time for him though (Amarr cruiser V ::)).
From what I've understood the Scimitar is the logi of preference for roaming fleets (especially drake gangs), smaller and more agile than the others?.
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Saf will be in HICs pretty soon and will also train logistics to 4 or 5 not long after. Armor repping logistics will take some more time for him though (Amarr cruiser V ::)).
From what I've understood the Scimitar is the logi of preference for roaming fleets (especially drake gangs), smaller and more agile than the others?.
Scimi for draek gangs
Guardians for armor hac gangs