Hands of Justice
What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: peo on March 18, 2010, 04:23:28 PM
-
Well, thought I make a post about it to give people a heads up about the planning I have for he future moongoo stuff.
First the what I want to do with it is to eventually get a income per month large enough to pay for limited capital losses. Around three per month (dreads preferably) should be adequate for our needs in the medium term.
This ofc depends on the moons I can find and reactions we can do.
I'm also not willing to just make more of the same thing (which would probably be easiest) as that makes us a lot more vulnerable to price fluctuations in that particular product. That means, no more carbonide of any sort.
What I'm fairly certain still exists as available moons are hafnium and vanadium. So the first step is to claim those. The vanadium moons I know of are also in "good" systems for mining, UMD and 8DL in GW, (also good for ratting) they are however far from stations.
There is probably a free hafnium moon were a small pos can be placed as a mid point as well which means it is possible to jump to either of those vanadium moons.
There are two things that can be made with vanadium hafnite, phenolic composits and hypersynaptic fibers, composites are way cheaper in contents so thats the aim for now.
So first step will be to place a small tower at the hafnium moon and then a large one on the vanadium moon. Later this will be expanded with the rest, most of the towers will remain in lowsec, preferably bimener.
Fuelhaulage from jita will probably be done by contracts to some freighter service.
Any thoughts?
-
Sounds like a good plan. whats the timescales you are looking at for these?
The reason im asking is do we want to wait till we have several rorqs/carriers/dreads available first to assist or are we certain that the locations are safe enough to prevent us suffering early POS seiges and losses.
-
Sounds like a good plan. whats the timescales you are looking at for these?
The reason im asking is do we want to wait till we have several rorqs/carriers/dreads available first to assist or are we certain that the locations are safe enough to prevent us suffering early POS seiges and losses.
Will be after I have the rorq. But havn't thought about that.
Need to check the moons if they are available still as well. Sieges is well a huge risk and if someone does it we will most likely be defenseless regardless. (will be gc/cow or similar 1k+ alliances).
-
Bit change of heart :)
Instead of one small and one large I think one small and one medium is a better choice at start.
A couple of reasons:
1. Profit, ~130m less fuelcosts for a medium
2. Fuelvolume, 1 month for a medium and small can be hauled in the rorq in one go.
3. "value at risk" (not the real VaR ;) if anyone but me knows what that is) a medium tower with fittings is a lot cheeper than a large and initially we don't know how likely we are to be "allowed" to keep it by CoW, GC and Primary.
Drawback is ofc that a medium is a lot weaker. However a Vanadium moon isn't worth that much either per month, about 70m, so I doubt it will be attacked.
A medium or even small tower is large enough to use as a safe as well.
Time plan is currently to first get this month of moongoo to market, which will be done next week probably (depends on how much longer we can run it without hauling in the new supplies from kasrasi, one or two weeks iirc)
Then as a return trip with a new month of fuel for all towers, the towers for GW will be bought with the necessary modules and hauled to kas.
Before I buy any towers I'll go check the moons again as well.
When setting up the ideal would be to use a cloaky hauler to move the small tower+1h of fuel or so into position and get it online at which point I jump in the rest of the stuff and same procedure for the second tower.
-
Was out looking for the best place to put a waypoint pos between derelik lowsec (uzis and bimener) and UMD.
I've found a decent one I think, in F5-CGW. A plat moon in a system with no other poses and few belts and crappy ores.
So considering setting a tower there. Would be a large tower in that case.
-
Fitting information for Tower 1 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.
Structure (Status)
Moon Harvesting Array (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
Silo (Online)
Silo (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Simple Reactor Array (Online)
Photon Scattering Array (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Online)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Offline)
Component Assembly Array (Offline)
Stasis Webification Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Small Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Medium Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Pulse Laser Battery (Offline)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Offline)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
Large Beam Laser Battery (Offline)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 3850 / 5500 (70,00%)
PG Usage: 4960000 / 5000000 (99,20%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light.
Suggestion for a "DS" fitted tower for the platinum moon.
It has a reaction to deal with one simple reaction (whichever that might be) however that could potentially be removed to allow for more guns online.
If attacked everything non essential should be off-lined and more guns be put online.
I've crunched some numbers about the large pulse lasers compared to the large beam lasers. Beams will give better damage at range but pulses give almost the same at almost the same range using +40% range ammo compared to the -50% range ammo for beams (no need to have anything else on beams as they have a optimal of 375km +50% bonus and the longest range a dread can engage at is 249km). I can get 3 pulses online compared to 2 beams without turning off other stuff.
Estimated cost of this setup is 664m.
The drawback compared to minmatar towers is the non optimal resistances given the most common dread being amarr (minmatar has 50% EM and 25% thermal resists which is the only damage the revelation does). This is why I believe in having some resistance modules on the tower, I'd prefer having more than the one online right now but it is a very tight fit one em mod at least makes it harder to kill for the passing dreadfleet.
A advantage of the amarr tower atm is that it is about 25m/month cheaper to operate due to isotope costs.
Any thoughts?
-
sorry, I really don't know enough about POSs and stuff to give any helpful feedback...
maybe on alliance forum?
-
sorry, I really don't know enough about POSs and stuff to give any helpful feedback...
maybe on alliance forum?
If it didn't give me a
500 - Internal server error.
There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.
that could have been a option.
-
I've found that pos guns apparantly doesn't get affected by the ammo range modifications, so always put short range ammo in the guns.
So our DS will only have MF crystals (think thats the best ones).
-
Another new thing I've just read, pos guns can shoot through the pos shield and the range/tracking seems to be calculated from the tower not the gun itself.
So placing the guns "north and south" of the tower could be enough.
edit:
Assuming tracking and range is calculated from the tower then the following are "worst case scenarios" when it comes to tangential speed meaning someone orbiting at the exact circumference of the shield.
Large beam: 46 m/s
Large pulse: 114 m/s
Medium beam: 130.8 m/s
Medium pulse: 600 m/s
Small beam: 316.8 m/s
If this is correct then "going in close" with a pos-gun is almost worthless as a method to get under its tracking, you will always be at 35-45 km from it (5-15km from the shield). Which also shows why blasters and certain short range guns are nigh on useless. (a large blaster has a shorter optimal than the shield radius and only 35km falloff)
-
hmm, so fast ships should be able to outrun the tracking of guns? nice... (if there are no webbers that is...)
-
hmm, so fast ships should be able to outrun the tracking of guns? nice... (if there are no webbers that is...)
Yes and no.
If you ONLY want to outrun them yes.
Orbit the tower at 31km at 2k or something and you might evade them well enough.
Orbit the gun itself and the tracking should be able to keep up as tracking seems to be counted from the tower and not the guns.
-
Platinum tower is up, hauling mods and stuff to it. Will try to get it fully armed today as well.
-
ugh :-[
sorry, totally forgot about 10:15 thing, was wrapped up with RL stuff
-
ugh :-[
sorry, totally forgot about 10:15 thing, was wrapped up with RL stuff
No problem. Haven't seen anyone in the system apart from myself and tyr :)
-
Everything up and running as it should. No new events (didn't see anyone there this morning either).
Bought and hauled the 8 guns and two hardeners and a heap of spare medium crystals.
It "should" be a decent deterrent to most people I hope.
-
When I fly an inty or covops to GW, I'll go and check it out :)
-
found this pos dps calculator, while probably not 100% accurate it should give an idea.
-
Good stuff. I have been wanting to get into moon mining personally for a while now. I just set up my own small tower in the next system over M9S-WC on a mercury moon. I have not put any guns on it. The idea being to keep costs low and just try to make some money before anyone capable of blowing it up finds it. I may gun it up in a week or two if its still there.
-
Good stuff. I have been wanting to get into moon mining personally for a while now. I just set up my own small tower in the next system over M9S-WC on a mercury moon. I have not put any guns on it. The idea being to keep costs low and just try to make some money before anyone capable of blowing it up finds it. I may gun it up in a week or two if its still there.
Nice one. If you need any advice on POS's Hrod is the daddy here on that subject.
-
When the current production period is up (a bit more than one month iirc) then I'll probably switch the carbonide making into making sylramic fibers.
At the moment carbonides is balooning in volume on the market so price is falling, recovered slightly this weekend but will likely drop again, and the isk is begining to not be worth the effort.
Not a massive difference in profitability at the moment but given that carbonides might continue to fall and the barrier to entry there is very low it is probably worth switching.
-
Unexpected setback...
One cycle of sylramic fibers produce a volume of 3k m3.
One cycle of carbonides produce 100 m3.
A silo can contain 20k m3.
So sadly I will need help to empty the sylramic silos for a while. Next time is in 66h so on thuesday sometime before 23:00 the silos will need emptying. I will look into solving this issue but it looks hard to fix at the moment.
-
23:00 cet that is... so ehhh 22 brittish summer time... no idea what that translates to eve-time though.
-
23:00 cet that is... so ehhh 22 brittish summer time... no idea what that translates to eve-time though.
Its 2100 eve time.
Will this require a hauler or is it a shift from a silo to a hangar and which tower is it at?
As I'll need to train haulers on Angaraka if its more than a move from a-b within a pos shield.
-
It should be a matter of just moving between silo and hangar. At least it seems I can get in range between both with a ittyV, was hard with a pod.
When I have some more time I'll move that silo closer.
-
I'll do it with an expanded BC then :)
EVE Mail which tower/location (im assuming one of the Bimener poses) so I dont forget.
-
Sneaking a peak during work (don't tell anyone...)
It is both the bimener poses. Can never remember where they are... Have posted it here somewhere.
-
23:00 cet that is... so ehhh 22 brittish summer time... no idea what that translates to eve-time though.
Thursday or Tuesday?
As your post says thuesday and im very confuzzled...
I'll check tomorrow evening anyways.
-
Nevermind - worked it out.
Tuesday :)
(And I have the locations for both poses).
-
At Gingerbead I wont be able to move stuff to the hangar, as its anchored but not online... (And Ang doesnt have anchoring skills - or does that not matter to actually offline/online?)
At Sourdough its the same.
Gief more info before tuesday night and this goes horribly wrong.
Nevermind, I really am stupid - misread the figures for starters in the tower grid usage. Then misread something else.
I'll keep an eye on this.
-
Unexpected setback...
One cycle of sylramic fibers produce a volume of 3k m3.
One cycle of carbonides produce 100 m3.
A silo can contain 20k m3.
So sadly I will need help to empty the sylramic silos for a while. Next time is in 66h so on thuesday sometime before 23:00 the silos will need emptying. I will look into solving this issue but it looks hard to fix at the moment.
1 cycle of Sylramics = 6000 units. 1 unit = 0.05m3. 6000 x 0.05 = 300m3. mmmmm
I shall continue to monitor and empty until the weekend.
-
Yes, 300 :P me stupid :)
But 20k/300=66.7 :) So the time is still there.
As for onlining/offlining, don't think you need anchoring for that only the proper rights. And yes it is tuesday, was in a bit of a rush when I discovered the problem.
-
you do need anchoring iirc
-
you do need anchoring iirc
Not to offline/online - I looked it up after asking yesterday. Which is wierd imo, id excpect it. Also explains how limited SP spai alts manage to fuck corps and alliances over offlining towers and stuff :D
-
Hmm, from what I remember, I couldnt online the hardeners on the KASEI POS with Angakuk, because he lacked anchoring.
Anyway, if it doesnt work for you, ask me. Saf's got anchoring @ IV
-
Thanks Saf :)
Worked without anchoring - offlining etc did so ive taken care of it for now, will check again Friday morning or so.
-
Someone emptied these today as both have 36000 units in, which is what 6hrs worth?
Or wont have worked during dt?
-
Someone emptied these today as both have 36000 units in, which is what 6hrs worth?
Or wont have worked during dt?
Yes I emptied them :) forgot to say so but was there when i logged on to try to jump the rorq to a station. (I'm not going to leave it floating around in space EVER!!!)
-
Just for future reference, I did a quick calculation about the time it takes for the advanced reactions to fill a silo on a cal/min tower. A gal will double the time and a amarr will up it by 50% due to bonuses.
Carbides/Carbonides: 200h
Fermionic condensates: 76h
Ferrogel: 50h
Fullerides: 44h
Hypersynaptic fibers: 44h
Nanotransistors: 53h
Phenolic composites: 45h
Sylramic fibers: 66h
So basically all of the more valuable do not only require more investment in cash but a lot more hands on approach. This means that using gal towers for everything but carbide/carbonide is the way to go.
For example Fullerides which are less than 2 days would go to 3.6 days.
So future expansion of reactor towers will be with gal towers.
Depending on how much fuel we can make ourselves it could be an idea to have them all in 0.0 in one system. If it means we can reduce the amount of fuels to be transported enough.
-
Well next help is needed before Wednesday at 1:30 eve time (so Tuesday evening sometime) next after that should be Friday morning (<66h after the last emptytime).
-
Mang, could you give me a crash course to POS reactors soon?
Afraid I will break things otherwise.
After course: +1 guy who can do this stuff.
-
Mang, could you give me a crash course to POS reactors soon?
Afraid I will break things otherwise.
After course: +1 guy who can do this stuff.
1. Online hangarbay
2. offline silo with sylramics
3. move from silo to hangar (move to within 2500m of each)
4. online silo+offline hangar
-
^^
Anyways, yeah I'll give it a go - and now Saf knows how Im sure he will too.
So I'll take a look evening/late night Tuesday
-
Taken care of this just now :)
-
Taken care of this just now :)
Thanks.
After next week I should be able to handle it again. In either case I'll probably start another reaction chain for sylramics in order to get more diversification and reduce handling overhead, gal towers for everything not carbonides hehe.
-
you been seeing those kills your towers are getting :) oh wait one was YOUR cyno alt :D :D :D
-
you been seeing those kills your towers are getting :) oh wait one was YOUR cyno alt :D :D :D
Yes :P for some reason personal +10 standings with the corp doesn't count so I had to put the cynoalt in corp :( well now it is a cyno-gunner alt so doesn't matter but.
-
you been seeing those kills your towers are getting :) oh wait one was YOUR cyno alt :D :D :D
Yes :P for some reason personal +10 standings with the corp doesn't count so I had to put the cynoalt in corp :( well now it is a cyno-gunner alt so doesn't matter but.
Because alliance standings supercede corp standings.
-
I've done a optimization to determine the optimal reactions we need to reach 3bn isk per month profit (while buying all goo).
The perfect one is 11 towers, the one I prefer has 12 (it has one carbionide setup as well).
The setup is 1 ferrogel and 2 nanotransistor (each with 2 complex reactions and the supporting simple ones).
At current prices that would yield 3.2bn isk (and require some 8.4bn isk/month in goo :P)
So thats our goal :P
edit: could have to change that with regards to fuel as I havn't updated that part of the sheet with the new prices so might be a bit less than 3.2 i suppose)
-
So last week of me needing aid with this :)
I emptied the silo at 6 evetime on sunday morning. So needs emptying sometime late tuesday (before 24 evetime)
-
Had an idea how to proceed towards my/our goal of 3bn/month profit on the towers :)
Basically, technetium is expensive.
Therefore the big thing is making money to buy tech while keeping enough profit to fund pew pew.
So the basic outline is:
1. Setup a large gal tower with 1 complex+simple reaction.
2. Buy ONE! week of tech (about 670m isk :( )
3. React it all to the complex (fullerides or something like that)
4. after one week sell one weeks worth of complex stuff and keep running without the simple reaction (one week of simple reaction will yield results for 2 weeks complex)
5. profit??
Well anyways, the gal tower will produce cash to expand tech supply slowly but surely, it will also be possible to dedicate that to the expansion while the other towers churn out a steady supply of isk for immidiate use :)
It is a bit more work, but not significantly so really, biggest thing is hauling 4 times a month to jita with goo rather than once. Still have to check in on the towers to move the complex out ever 5 days or so iirc.
The biggest advantage is that we need a lot lower startup compared to setting up the complete chain including 1 month of tech for it. All in all I estimate the startup cost will be about 1.5bn.
-
Had an idea for the future when/if we have a significant amount of poses...
Adopt a POS :)
Basically the idea is to spread out the effort among people, I estimate that one person can handle at most 6 poses without going insane. So to make it possible to run a large amount of poses we need more people willing to step up.
So the idea is:
You "adopt" a POS, meaning you are responsible to fuel it and keep the reaction running. Hauling fuel to a pos can, depending on where it is, be organized by the corp as a whole. For example if we have a heap of poses in a single 0.0 system we can always organize a time when we jump in fuel for all of them, same if they are in a "near" low-sec system where we can have a freighter convoy for the job :)
As a reward for the effort the person would get:
A comemorative plaque (well name the pos :P)
A montly isk reward (10m?)
-
I know 2 guys that run 50 posses between them and its a couple of hours work each per week (jf+rorq each mind you).
Could be a good idea, but would require more people than we have and trusted people at that, and when we do start recruiting trust is going to take YEARS (and not dog years either) for people to earn ;)
As giving person access to one tower, gives them access to all :(
-
I know 2 guys that run 50 posses between them and its a couple of hours work each per week (jf+rorq each mind you).
Could be a good idea, but would require more people than we have and trusted people at that, and when we do start recruiting trust is going to take YEARS (and not dog years either) for people to earn ;)
As giving person access to one tower, gives them access to all :(
True.
Well was a thought :)
Well people can get a comemorative plaque anyway (my imagination with names might dry up :P) and I guess we will see how many poses we get up in the end :)
-
Tuesday night empty taken care of :)
-
And for friday :)
-
Thanks :)
I'll update everything when i get home tonight, but I'll probably switch back to carbonides making it a once per week thing to empty.
(and yes I should be working but I made a mistake the ´puter takes ages to fix :P )
-
Moon database
-
ARGH!"!!!
F5 tower offline again :( meh good thing i'm ill today so i can get it online again.
-
I just had to fuel the Anttiri tower too.
Think our towers are turning into women ;)
-
Soon they will need us to have pimped rides to put out???
Refueled and onlined again... At least A LOT faster without having to anchor.
-
I love red frog :P
Used them to haul the next month of fuel, set up the contract yesterday, today its done :)
-
nice!