Hands of Justice
What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: Temon Oak on June 07, 2009, 04:08:11 PM
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We are supposed to throw up one or two of these acouding to the EZ charter :
Official default Deathstar
Minmatar large tower
12 large autocannon (EMP ammo)
10 medium arty (EMP ammo)
6 medium autocannon (EMP ammo)
3 of each ECM jammer (12 in total)
4 warp disruptors
2 webs
4 neuts
50% is online with the other 50% in reserve ( to replace incapacitaed)
All ammo bays must be full even on the spare guns
Shields must be open to alliance
Must be set to fire on neutrals
Corp must have up to date standings so it wont fire on ally members and PL/SOT ( +10 suggested )
Only modification that is allowed is if the modules/tower is replaced with the fraction verson , T2 version of ammo is also ok.
Hangar array is ok to store fuel , but be sure to have it offline when you are not refueling and max guns online.
If the tower is a jammer DS in a system you may offline enough to keep a cyno jammer online , but not to have less guns because of it , if jammer is incapped you should online max guns again until jammer have been replaced .
How far on it are we so far?
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>.<
Thats how far on it.
Red mentioned this, but theyve never come to us and said "right you need to place this in X system", or at least they hadnt before he went awol and I went riding bikes. I got the impression Red was waiting for them to ask us this rather than spending more of the cash we dont actually have given how fucked our infant isk making infrastructure got when the corp joined the germans and moved to 0.0.
Red used some hefty negotiating to get us into EH at Tier 1 and then never went beyond that I think with regards to discussion. Given that I had doubts about the alliance then, and frankly still do now, I paid scant attention to what was going on. (Stupidly so on reflection, but hindsights a bitch).
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A single DS on this spec would require:
Fuel Calculations for Tower 1 (Minmatar Control Tower) at (Location Not Specified)
Enriched Uranium : 2016
Oxygen : 12768
Mechanical Parts : 2688
Coolant : 4032
Robotics : 672
Isotopes : 227136
Liquid Ozone : 65856
Heavy Water : 6048
Space Required : 89712 m3
Calculations were based on a 4 week interval. 165million isk in cost for fuel.
_____________________________________________
Generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light
Fitting information for Tower 1 (Minmatar Control Tower) at a location not specified.
Structure (Status)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Offline)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Offline)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Offline)
Phase Inversion Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Offline)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Offline)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 450 / 6000 (7.50%)
PG Usage: 3787500 / 4375000 (86.57%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light (http://www.cassandraslight.com/).
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Eventually we should aim to have 2 DS imo.
One in z30 and one in cha2.
Simple reason is that DS can be end points for jump bridges and having a jump bridge between those two systems would make logistics insanely much simpler.
Also your cost calculation doesn't take into account the 25% lower fuel demand for a pos in your own sov right?
Anyway, we should look into it for that reason alone, but we need to have better cashflow. Basically more miners and a steady output of caps or other stuff.
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I'd set the Sov to 3 in MyPOS and kept switching between that and no sov and it didnt change, but that could be becuse this a theoretical tower though :S
Any idea of the Jita cost of the tower and its bits?
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So, some of the guys in MAADI would like to deal with our requirement to fit and place a DS, any suggestions as to where they should start looking at placing one?
They can then source the parts, source the ice fuel (Lucky we have a guy mining ice in minmatar space for other needs we have) and start getting things transported down to 0.0.
FYI, I dont need to have one of these guys placed. Not to say no against it, but to ... err... let you know
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Id sooner we didnt have to do it either, but its part of the current level of alliance membership we have to meet I suppose :(
However I'd sooner its a thing we do once its finanacially viable to do so. Rather than race, but having an idea of location would help plan for logisitics involved.
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No rush imo either.
If they start to demand it well then we have to do more about it, so far they have been rather ok with our inability to field a DS.
As I said, eventually.
We need to have a viable economy first. As long as we get to keep the 7-8 pos the running costs of the towers we have is almost payed for. Think they differ around 20-30m per month at most.
We should think about what and where to place a DS, one of the main considerations should be ores. The moons in cha2 are rather bad (the free ones at least) but the system has ice and good roids so is a good place to have a mining base at least and setting that up would mean we can remove the small one in c1x (after red is back so the ror doesn't end up in trouble).
But as said we need to get a viable corp economy going first.
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I'd rather have DSs in Z30. As there is no place for hangars and stuff, it would do no good for mining ops.
DSs in Z30 could mean a JB -> better connection to PNQ -> yay!
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Would need a DS on the other end of the JB and that will have to be in cha2 anyway since the alliance is going to make a JB node there and that will most likely be from k8l.
As for room, there is quite ample room for a corp hangar, even if the setup mang did forgot about hardeners which is needed.
Fitting information for Tower 1 (Minmatar Control Tower) at a location not specified.
Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Offline)
Explosion Dampening Array (Online)
Explosion Dampening Array (Online)
Heat Dissipation Array (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Offline)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Large Artillery Battery (Offline)
Large Artillery Battery (Offline)
Large Artillery Battery (Offline)
Large Artillery Battery (Offline)
Large Artillery Battery (Offline)
Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Large Artillery Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large Ship Assembly Array (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Offline)
Phase Inversion Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Offline)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 2700 / 6000 (45,00%)
PG Usage: 4230000 / 4375000 (96,69%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light.
That is a bit more realistic. Has 50% resists allround.
That setup (by accident) includes a assembly array, a JB deathstar would be a bit different though.
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http://www.eventhorizon.se/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3
Hangar array is ok to store fuel , but be sure to have it offline when you are not refueling and max guns online.
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http://www.eventhorizon.se/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3
Hangar array is ok to store fuel , but be sure to have it offline when you are not refueling and max guns online.
Considering they ignored hardeners making the poses quick to kill I'll take their "advice" with a few grains of salt.
If you are mining in a system the likelyhood of someone being able to kill off anything is rather slim, you wouldn't have the storage online when you aren't there only when you are mining or similar.
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Considering they ignored hardeners making the poses quick to kill I'll take their "advice" with a few grains of salt.
If you are mining in a system the likelyhood of someone being able to kill off anything is rather slim, you wouldn't have the storage online when you aren't there only when you are mining or similar.
i wouldnt listen to any of their advice they really dont have a clue, just look at their "recommendations" for ship fits saying armour tank or else nubs :)
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Tried to make an excel sheet, would like to have it doublechecked for numbers, prices and modules *grins*
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excel version
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Any DS really needs to have hardeners. Otherwise they go poof way to fast when unmanned from what I've understood.
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I think you guys left out the jump bridge....this is probably why you were able to add all those hardeners?
Fitting information for Tower 1 (Minmatar Control Tower) at a location not specified.
Structure (Status)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Online)
Energy Neutralizing Battery (Offline)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Offline)
Jump Bridge (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Large AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Online)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium Artillery Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Online)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Medium AutoCannon Battery (Offline)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Offline)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Offline)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
Warp Disruption Battery (Offline)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Offline)
----------------------------------------------
CPU Usage: 4550 / 6000 (75.83%)
PG Usage: 4317500 / 4375000 (98.69%)
----------------------------------------------
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light (http://www.cassandraslight.com/).
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all these components total to 669,774,000.00 ISK.
also it all weights 254,000 m3.....the jump bridge is kinda big at 100,000 m3.
Which means it would somehow need to be moved from wherever it is finally purchased at to Pashanai by something that can hold 100,000 m3.
the weekly cost in fuel is about 48mil........
6-7 mil a day? what's that, 10 rats?
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And to make a JB worthwhile we need to have a second JB somewhere.
Any deathstar needs to have hardeners. Otherwise it is just a *poof* waiting to happen.
Jump Bridge Death Star (With Hardeners)
1 Domination Large Tower
1 Jump Bridge
2x Ballistic Deflection Array
2x Explosion Dampening Array
Heat Dissipation Array
12x Domination Med Arty Battery
2x Domination Med AutoCannon Battery
2x Domination Small Arty Battery
2x Domination Small AutoCannon Battery
3x Dread Guristas Ion Field Proj Battery
3x Dread Guristas Phase Invern Battery
3x Dread Guristas Spatial Destab Battery
2x Dread Guristas White Noise Gener Battery
2x Shadow Warp Disr Battery
Domination Stasis Web Battery
What We Should Have Anchored But Not Online:
1 Component Assembly Array (Storage. Online as needed)
2 Warp Disrup Batteries (extra for when an active one is destroyed)
1 Domination Stasis Web (extra)
4 Domination Large Arty (extra for if cyno jammer goes down)
2 Domination Large Auto Arty
4 True Sansha Energy Nuets (extra for if cyno jammer goes down)
8 Domination Med Arty (extra)
4 Domination Small Arty (extra)
3 Dread Guristas Ion Field Projec Battery
3 Dread Guristas Phase Inver Battery
3 Dread Guristas Spatial Desta Battery
3 Dread Guristas White Noise Gene Battery
When Attacked You:
Offline
Ballistic Deflec Array
Explosion Dampen Array
Heat Dissip Array
Online
3x Domination Med Arty Battery
2x Dread Guristas Ion Field Projec Battery
2x Dread Guristas Phase Inversion Battery
2x Dread Guristas Spatial Destab Battery
2x Dread Guristas White Noise Gener Battery
When CPU Batteries Offline You Online:
8 Domination Med Arty
When Cyno Jammer Goes Down:
4 Domination Large Arty
2 Domination Large Auto Arty
3 True Sansha Energy Neuts
Offline small and medium batteries till you have enough cpu/power
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=817184
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And to make a JB worthwhile we need to have a second JB somewhere.
Any deathstar needs to have hardeners. Otherwise it is just a *poof* waiting to happen.
Jump Bridge Death Star (With Hardeners)
1 Domination Large Tower
1 Jump Bridge
2x Ballistic Deflection Array
2x Explosion Dampening Array
Heat Dissipation Array
12x Domination Med Arty Battery
2x Domination Med AutoCannon Battery
2x Domination Small Arty Battery
2x Domination Small AutoCannon Battery
3x Dread Guristas Ion Field Proj Battery
3x Dread Guristas Phase Invern Battery
3x Dread Guristas Spatial Destab Battery
2x Dread Guristas White Noise Gener Battery
2x Shadow Warp Disr Battery
Domination Stasis Web Battery
What We Should Have Anchored But Not Online:
1 Component Assembly Array (Storage. Online as needed)
2 Warp Disrup Batteries (extra for when an active one is destroyed)
1 Domination Stasis Web (extra)
4 Domination Large Arty (extra for if cyno jammer goes down)
2 Domination Large Auto Arty
4 True Sansha Energy Nuets (extra for if cyno jammer goes down)
8 Domination Med Arty (extra)
4 Domination Small Arty (extra)
3 Dread Guristas Ion Field Projec Battery
3 Dread Guristas Phase Inver Battery
3 Dread Guristas Spatial Desta Battery
3 Dread Guristas White Noise Gene Battery
When Attacked You:
Offline
Ballistic Deflec Array
Explosion Dampen Array
Heat Dissip Array
Online
3x Domination Med Arty Battery
2x Dread Guristas Ion Field Projec Battery
2x Dread Guristas Phase Inversion Battery
2x Dread Guristas Spatial Destab Battery
2x Dread Guristas White Noise Gener Battery
When CPU Batteries Offline You Online:
8 Domination Med Arty
When Cyno Jammer Goes Down:
4 Domination Large Arty
2 Domination Large Auto Arty
3 True Sansha Energy Neuts
Offline small and medium batteries till you have enough cpu/power
Corp wallet just commited suicide ;)
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you have any idea how much you just raised JB DS cost by lol...we cna probably implement 2 sides of a JB with what your proposed DS with hardeners would cost....
also, have any of the other jump bridges ever been attacked?
a POS doesn't just poof if attacked....doesn't it go into reinforced mode first and notify us?
i think we need to decide on using the default set up.....we're talking trash about the set up but we really don't have more experience than they do with this stuff.
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this is what i dont understand:
When Attacked You:
Offline
Ballistic Deflec Array
Explosion Dampen Array
Heat Dissip Array
you get attacked and you offline resists?? nice! let's not build em in the first place
"but then, I'm a hater"
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this is what i dont understand:
When Attacked You:
Offline
Ballistic Deflec Array
Explosion Dampen Array
Heat Dissip Array
you get attacked and you offline resists?? nice! let's not build em in the first place
"but then, I'm a hater"
Resists are there to avoid getting the DS into reinforced before you can get there to support it.
A pos without supporting fleet will die regardless.
So hardeners buy significant amounts of time, remember going from 0-25% resists makes a huge difference in "ehp".
And I'm fully aware we can't afford a jb node.
Setting up a DS and setting up a JB node are two different things and I honestly dont understand the rush to set a node up.
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well, i dont understand the rush to get a DS either tbh
even if the alliance 'wants us to', they never nagged about it, so why bother?
I think fueling the current pos-es is a pain as it is, so why build even another one, one that has no use other than looking pretty and dangerous
who in corp really wants a DS btw? -> poll
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What do you think? Should we get a DS (if it is our choice)?
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I voted the middle one. I dont really play out in 0.0 atm and i am not the one having to refuel them all the time. If it helps the corp in some way i dont mind one being put up if it helps the corp in some way..
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if it helps the corp in some way..
well for me that's the big question. i don't see how...
My opinion lies somewhere between bottom 2 options, voted the 4th
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*not going to vote* and have stitched my mouith up ><
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So much hate :)
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Personally, id suggest having it ready for when the germans require it - but not going all out to set it up prior to that (Heck, for purchases, i'd do it in batches, so as to spread the cost somewhat). Its yet another cost the corp cannot afford (and even before the ebank thing dropped my liquid isk a tad, I'd decided to not throw more isk the corps way) at this time, both in terms of isk and man hours required to oversee it, given how many people are out in 0.0 regularly and how many are in general off riding bikes for the summer. And then there is the whole thing about building caps, we arent quite there with that yet, and to have more stuff on the go that stretches those of you doing alot of ingame work even further :S
As for talk about JB's and more ds - its all moot right now until we know exactly what sort of network re JB's the germans have in mind - they may not want Z to be connected, even if the corp foots the bill itself.
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JB's - I take it a DS is the best thing to stick near it?
(Im liking Zigs thougths and support for a JB network...)
Zig - would the other end of a JB link starting in Z also have Sov 3? as thats what we require to do Cyno stuff from POS's?
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(Im liking Zigs thougths and support for a JB network...)
me too
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(Im liking Zigs thougths and support for a JB network...)
me too
ANother bonus - and im sure he mentioned it - gets blues to Z faster, to chase pesky GK away?
A DS protecting something like the other end of a JB network I could support in a small way - as its aiding a corp asset really.
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We can't afford a JB node. Sure you dont "have" to have a ds at either end. But it is still a significant cost in fuel for both tower and bridge.
A DS we have to set up, imo we should to it incrementally to spread costs around a bit more. When we have a proper isk making ability we can look into JB's.
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for those who missed the whole discussion yesterday, this is what i got:
[ 2009.06.10 19:43:32 ] Zigzags > question
?[ 2009.06.10 19:43:45 ] Safran Foer > hmm?
?[ 2009.06.10 19:43:46 ] Zigzags > how much of the mins at z30 can we move to mn5n
?[ 2009.06.10 19:44:14 ] Safran Foer > all, nothing, halfwhy?
?[ 2009.06.10 19:45:02 ] Zigzags > because i cant really build anything for the corp for profit at market prices and mn5n doesn't have much for building bs's for sale and such
?[ 2009.06.10 19:46:03 ] Safran Foer > well, i think carrier build comes first, but after that, i dunno, we havent really got a industry overseer atm
?[ 2009.06.10 19:46:04 ] Temon Oak > Greetings Mangala
?[ 2009.06.10 19:46:05 ] Safran Foer > lo mong
?[ 2009.06.10 19:46:07 ] Safran Foer > mang
?[ 2009.06.10 19:46:14 ] Mangala Solaris > yeehaw!
?[ 2009.06.10 19:46:42 ] Safran Foer > I have pulled some weight lately, but i dont really know where everyone wants us to go tbh
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:01 ] Mangala Solaris > noooooooooooooooooooooo
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:05 ] Zigzags > so all the mins are tied up in z30 because we dont know how much we need to complete the carriorer?
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:06 ] Mangala Solaris > phobos been sold!
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:25 ] Safran Foer > too bad mang :s
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:36 ] Safran Foer > i dont know
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:51 ] Mangala Solaris > afaik I know we need capital shield emitters building the one part we didnt have bpc's for - but thats going on what others have been providing info on.
?[ 2009.06.10 19:47:54 ] Safran Foer > we have too many ppl doing/deciding imho and i lost track
?[ 2009.06.10 19:48:18 ] Zigzags > i havent done anything because i cant
?[ 2009.06.10 19:48:27 ] Zigzags > we have 4 mil trit in mn5n
?[ 2009.06.10 19:48:30 ] Safran Foer > im not pointing fingers
?[ 2009.06.10 19:48:48 ] Zigzags > heres another issue
?[ 2009.06.10 19:48:58 ] Zigzags > why are we complaining about DS cost when we are bleeding isk due to our roster monthly
?[ 2009.06.10 19:49:03 ] Zigzags > fuel cost that is
?[ 2009.06.10 19:49:22 ] Zigzags > we gotta fix something internally first
?[ 2009.06.10 19:50:00 ] Safran Foer > what do you mean bleeding isk due to our roster? me no comprende
?[ 2009.06.10 19:50:12 ] Zigzags > we pay 8 mil a member?
?[ 2009.06.10 19:50:18 ] Zigzags > to alliance
?[ 2009.06.10 19:50:23 ] Safran Foer > aye
?[ 2009.06.10 19:51:04 ] Safran Foer > ...?
?[ 2009.06.10 19:51:06 ] Zigzags > 360mil a month
?[ 2009.06.10 19:51:12 ] Zigzags > how many people log in, how many are alts
?[ 2009.06.10 19:52:03 ] Zigzags > if we cleaned that up a bit somehow, it would put the corp in a better spot financially
?[ 2009.06.10 19:52:17 ] Zigzags > i dont know tho a lot of you are friends outside of eve so....
?[ 2009.06.10 19:52:38 ] Zigzags > but maybe move inactives to a temp holding corp? maybe pay for your alts if you have more than 1 or something? i dont know
?[ 2009.06.10 19:53:07 ] Zigzags > we are complaining about fuel costs but every month possible throw almost that much away in fees
?[ 2009.06.10 19:53:08 ] Safran Foer > yeah, thats the thing i think, we have some guys less active atm, but dont think we want to kick em out
?[ 2009.06.10 19:53:19 ] Safran Foer > and my main obj to the DS is not the cost
?[ 2009.06.10 19:53:37 ] Safran Foer > it's the refueling hassle mostlyand the uselessness of it 2nd
?[ 2009.06.10 19:54:06 ] Zigzags > would it be useless if we could get it to connect z30 to the rest of the jb network? allowing access to 2 player statios, c1x, cha2, pnq, g95
?[ 2009.06.10 19:54:17 ] Zigzags > in effect connecting yz area with npc stations to it
?[ 2009.06.10 19:54:21 ] Safran Foer > we have what? 3-5? people refueling, so just a few who take the brunt
?[ 2009.06.10 19:54:25 ] Mangala Solaris > im more concerned with self sufficiecny for the corp - it cannot be me dropping a bill or so every so often into the wallet. Im looking thru the playerlist now btw
?[ 2009.06.10 19:54:29 ] Zigzags > jf runs from empire with materials could just jb to z30
?[ 2009.06.10 19:54:52 ] Zigzags > and the ds/jb should be in same system hopefully as z30 or 1 jb away for the other end of the node
?[ 2009.06.10 19:55:02 ] Mangala Solaris > and lord how do I wish for a "remove all roles" button on characters rather than lookingt hru endless menus :S
?[ 2009.06.10 19:55:19 ] Zigzags > part of the reason you are droppin a bil here and there is the roster
?[ 2009.06.10 19:55:22 ] Zigzags > among other things
?[ 2009.06.10 19:55:45 ] Zigzags > part of the money is tied up in BPCs we cant use to make stuff with because of mats
?[ 2009.06.10 19:56:26 ] Safran Foer > well, we can continue to buy mats from market and get income with that, but margins arent great
?[ 2009.06.10 19:56:40 ] Safran Foer > and we only have 1 miner in 0.0, so mins are crap anyway
?[ 2009.06.10 19:56:41 ] Zigzags > the jb would open up a lot of options for us market wise and resource wise
?[ 2009.06.10 19:57:04 ] Zigzags > i got krunked here working towards a hill still in a mining barge took him out for a spin last nite
?[ 2009.06.10 19:57:13 ] Zigzags > i dont like to mine alone its better as an op
?[ 2009.06.10 19:57:47 ] Zigzags > and to inject cash into the corp kidna easily and quickly i thought about this, how about a corp night where we rat and set tax to 100% for the day/nite
?[ 2009.06.10 19:57:59 ] Zigzags > once a week or every 2 weeks
?[ 2009.06.10 19:58:20 ] Zigzags > making money on mins here is not that great, correct
?[ 2009.06.10 19:58:40 ] Zigzags > but we can turn some kind of profit on BS's and such by mining 1-3 of the mats we need and buying the rest
?[ 2009.06.10 19:58:56 ] Zigzags > dont have to mine all of it, dont have to buy all of it
?[ 2009.06.10 20:00:03 ] Safran Foer > true
?[ 2009.06.10 20:00:42 ] Zigzags > and with darthkarrow in a jf and a JB network possibly from pnq to z30 what we can bring from empire would move around a lot easier
?[ 2009.06.10 20:01:11 ] Zigzags > of course this all hinges on being able to connect z30 to jb network and that might possibly include having 2 ds, but this would automatically move us into the next ally membership tier
?[ 2009.06.10 20:01:19 ] Zigzags > and save us more on membership fees on the backend also
?[ 2009.06.10 20:01:32 ] Zigzags > i think red already dropped 500mil to bypass the trial in EZ
?[ 2009.06.10 20:01:38 ] Zigzags > and get us to tier 1
?[ 2009.06.10 20:01:45 ] Mangala Solaris > corp wallet did - not red.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:02:21 ] Mangala Solaris > he may have passed a large part to it though - datas gone fromt hat period though - sucks :S
?[ 2009.06.10 20:02:25 ] Zigzags > we are even moon mining lol
?[ 2009.06.10 20:02:42 ] Zigzags > we are benefitting from membership but not providing our part
?[ 2009.06.10 20:02:59 ] Zigzags > but
?[ 2009.06.10 20:03:02 ] Safran Foer > hmm, we were moonmining before we were in EH
?[ 2009.06.10 20:03:13 ] Zigzags > the last tower we put up?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:03:42 ] Zigzags > ive only been to c1x and z30 i havent been to the other is it a moon mining pos?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:03:46 ] Safran Foer > z30
?[ 2009.06.10 20:03:58 ] Safran Foer > yeah 7-8 is too
?[ 2009.06.10 20:04:11 ] Safran Foer > c1 isnt, is it?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:04:17 ] Safran Foer > moonmining
?[ 2009.06.10 20:04:17 ] Zigzags > no
?[ 2009.06.10 20:05:08 ] Zigzags > so....i cannot go to EZ and try to convince them to let us put up a 2 ds/JB to connect z30 to rest of jb network, because of internal issues
?[ 2009.06.10 20:05:24 ] Zigzags > and putting up 1 ds/jb is prolly gonna get it requested elsewhere
?[ 2009.06.10 20:05:25 ] Mangala Solaris > c1 was a regular mining base iirc - red set it up due to a certain mineral type up there
?[ 2009.06.10 20:06:08 ] Zigzags > i was about to drop enough isk to buy a complete ds/jb set up last nite, but the corp issues/hesitation/complaints prevented me from doing so
?[ 2009.06.10 20:06:11 ] Mangala Solaris > then he possibly logged out int he rorqual there and well if he doesnt have a freindly tower when/if he logs in - the rorq may die?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:06:33 ] Zigzags > we can always find someone in EZ to help us move it
?[ 2009.06.10 20:06:36 ] Zigzags > if need be
?[ 2009.06.10 20:07:32 ] Safran Foer > well, my hesitation is largely fueled by me not knowing who is in charge of what and me not wanting to have the corp get a DS because one or two persons want it that badly
?[ 2009.06.10 20:07:40 ] Safran Foer > without proper arguments imho
?[ 2009.06.10 20:07:50 ] Mangala Solaris > I just cants ee what EH gives us is all :)
?[ 2009.06.10 20:08:00 ] Zigzags > i gave a bunch of arguments, if they ar enot proper, they are not proper to you
?[ 2009.06.10 20:08:01 ] Safran Foer > the argument you made now is the best ive heard
?[ 2009.06.10 20:08:02 ] Zigzags > look proper to me
?[ 2009.06.10 20:08:21 ] Mangala Solaris > Personally I see the merits of a JB link
?[ 2009.06.10 20:08:23 ] Safran Foer > lol, i refer to comment above
?[ 2009.06.10 20:08:48 ] Mangala Solaris > after some of the stuff you guys go thru to move just to pnqy - i see it has a bloody good thing.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:09:44 ] Mangala Solaris > its just with a small playerbase in these summer months, so much logisitics falls on so few heads and while I salute you guys who take it on, I really dont want you to fuck your playtime over for it all the time either
?[ 2009.06.10 20:09:50 ] Safran Foer > and before this talk we had now, i didnt see much talk on forum. just setups. if the arguments were done in game, half of us will have missed it(or i am blind and missed it in forum)
?[ 2009.06.10 20:10:20 ] Zigzags > i dropped 200 mil into producing t1 modules i loaded up beer shack with, i did it last month to wafflehouse.....i did it for personal gain because the corp didnt have the mats, bp's or money to do it or logistics
?[ 2009.06.10 20:10:45 ] Zigzags > open up a jb network to 2 other player stations and npc stations near serpentis space and we open up a whole lot of doors for members/corp
?[ 2009.06.10 20:11:50 ] Safran Foer > all true
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:02 ] Zigzags > if the jb opens up our passage to pnq, and allows us to bring stuff from empire, fueling what we have no will become even easier
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:09 ] Zigzags > now*
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:17 ] Safran Foer > but "what mang said above"
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:23 ] Zigzags > i can imagine c1x is a bitch to fuel
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:30 ] Zigzags > i dont even know where the other pos is
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:48 ] Temon Oak > c1 is easy compared to that one :P
?[ 2009.06.10 20:12:54 ] Zigzags > now c1x theoretically would be 2 jumps away froma jb
?[ 2009.06.10 20:13:31 ] Zigzags > all u people who like playing market will love it, especially if we get our own jf going soon
?[ 2009.06.10 20:13:48 ] Safran Foer > eh? who's going to buy it
?[ 2009.06.10 20:14:36 ] Zigzags > im sure whoever is training for it isgoing to put aside SOME isk for it or they just think JF will fall into their lap if they train it?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:15:13 ] Zigzags > and if its a corp jf that is needed i dont see how we cant afford it collectively to make profits off of it
?[ 2009.06.10 20:15:55 ] Zigzags > im positive we all have different ideas on how to make massive amounts of money if only it didnt take so much jumps or trips to empire assisted by outside people
?[ 2009.06.10 20:16:21 ] Zigzags > or jumps in fountain itself and risk losing cargo due to enemies
?[ 2009.06.10 20:16:23 ] Safran Foer > all good, but i am not the one making decisions and doing this in game in stead of on a more robust forum doesnt help imho
?[ 2009.06.10 20:17:10 ] Zigzags > we can go to the forums just having a conversation with most if not all of the people involved currently being online
?[ 2009.06.10 20:17:53 ] Mangala Solaris > /emote has no thoughts really - hard enough for me to find what i like in eve this week let alone anythinge lse at the moment. Sorry but thats how it is for me right now.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:18:25 ] Mangala Solaris > and i thought alt trimming would have made life easier
?[ 2009.06.10 20:18:32 ] Safran Foer > heh
?[ 2009.06.10 20:18:39 ] Zigzags > dont need to trim alts
?[ 2009.06.10 20:18:52 ] Temon Oak > Mangala had LOTS of alts
?[ 2009.06.10 20:18:53 ] Mangala Solaris > when you had as many as Idid
?[ 2009.06.10 20:18:54 ] Zigzags > if you prefer maybe everyones alt costs 8mil a month
?[ 2009.06.10 20:19:04 ] Zigzags > to keep in corp to help out with fees
?[ 2009.06.10 20:19:19 ] Temon Oak > Mangala had so many alts outside of corp he/she/it didnt have time to play them all
?[ 2009.06.10 20:19:29 ] Mangala Solaris > yeah so i sold most of them
?[ 2009.06.10 20:20:06 ] Mangala Solaris > moved accounts with the rest. down to 3 accounts now. and 2 chars on each, even thinking about moving more again - down to two maybe.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:20:15 ] Safran Foer > mang, feel like some pve/pvp around citadel tonight? im there atmoh... although in my +4 alt atm, so pve preferably
?[ 2009.06.10 20:20:29 ] Mangala Solaris > finalise my frighter pilots and mack bitch, then go from there.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:20:34 ] Zigzags > will it be possible to have someone count how much mins is needed to complete the cap ship being built in z30 so that not ALL of the mins are tied up indefinately
?[ 2009.06.10 20:20:57 ] Mangala Solaris > i should be able to do that remotely, i'll wander thru assets.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:22:15 ] Temon Oak > hmm, I could buy and look at the clock and notice its quite late and probebly not do much near the citadel today...
?[ 2009.06.10 20:22:19 ] Temon Oak > Doh
?[ 2009.06.10 20:22:48 ] Mangala Solaris > gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
?[ 2009.06.10 20:22:53 ] Mangala Solaris > stupid corp ui
?[ 2009.06.10 20:23:02 ] Mangala Solaris > let me look at stuff in space that contains stuff :S
?[ 2009.06.10 20:23:20 ] Mangala Solaris > anyone at Z?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:23:39 ] Temon Oak > Last anyone checked we needed
?[ 2009.06.10 20:23:40 ] Safran Foer > Brian, you reading all this?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:23:41 ] Temon Oak > 12 drone bays5 shield emitters (which we seem to lack a bp for )7 maint bays
?[ 2009.06.10 20:24:01 ] Mangala Solaris > cool T - i'll work the numbers. afk a second
?[ 2009.06.10 20:24:52 ] Temon Oak > Not sure if anyone build any parts since Hrodgar checked that
?[ 2009.06.10 20:25:18 ] Mangala Solaris > Think Brian/C has been doing stuff - but is he following chat?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:26:18 ] Zigzags > if # of building slots you got for the parts runs out lemme know and get krunked on it to complete it faster
?[ 2009.06.10 20:26:47 ] Mangala Solaris > Biggest bottleneck is the capital shield emitter bpc's.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:26:54 ] Mangala Solaris > anyways back to excel a second
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:06 ] Zigzags > acquiring or building time/requirements?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:27 ] Temon Oak > We dont seem to have a bueprint out in foutain at the moment
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:38 ] Mangala Solaris > easy to get then ship down, but bpc's on contracts show differently for us looking at them -
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:45 ] Mangala Solaris > for instance i saw 5 lastnight of 1 run each
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:48 ] Mangala Solaris > hrod saw 30 :S
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:53 ] Mangala Solaris > and we used the same filters :S
?[ 2009.06.10 20:27:55 ] Mangala Solaris > at the same time.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:28:18 ] Zigzags > too many contracts? i did a contract search in jita for entire region and i only got contracts in the station
?[ 2009.06.10 20:28:36 ] Mangala Solaris > could be that then. :S
?[ 2009.06.10 20:28:47 ] Mangala Solaris > I'll try again in a mo and see what happens
?[ 2009.06.10 20:29:15 ] Zigzags > im in empire now in an intie if no one else is running back to fountain maybe i will with some bpc
?[ 2009.06.10 20:29:20 ] Zigzags > later tonight
?[ 2009.06.10 20:30:28 ] Mangala Solaris > do it - iirc you have wallet access now?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:30:48 ] Mangala Solaris > if not let me know what you spend and I'll reimburse you.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:30:55 ] Safran Foer > mebbe buy 4 5-runs, so we have enough for a 2nd chimera btw
?[ 2009.06.10 20:31:09 ] Zigzags > i nede to know exactly which bpc and me/pe we need
?[ 2009.06.10 20:31:25 ] Safran Foer > Capital Shield Emitter Blueprint
?[ 2009.06.10 20:31:39 ] Safran Foer > this, me/pe irrelevant, as long as we get the stupid thing built
?[ 2009.06.10 20:31:46 ] Mangala Solaris > 1 chim only needs 11 of those
?[ 2009.06.10 20:32:10 ] Mangala Solaris > mats needed for 12 x drone bays:
?[ 2009.06.10 20:32:13 ] Mangala Solaris > Tritanium 3753072Pyerite 899964Mexallon 360348Isogen 48636Nocxium 13356Zydrine 2628Megacyte 924Morphite 0
?[ 2009.06.10 20:32:18 ] Safran Foer > 5 for this one, and 11(15) for the next, only 4 mil per bpc, so 1 or 4 irrelevant imho
?[ 2009.06.10 20:33:20 ] Dostov > ya know if we need mining done i can get my other 2 toons out here, one can fly an orca the other a hulk
?[ 2009.06.10 20:35:17 ] Safran Foer > well, yeah, we need mining done :)
?[ 2009.06.10 20:35:37 ] Safran Foer > shall i buy the bpcs zigz? and contract em to you?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:35:41 ] Mangala Solaris > i'll be back down on the weekend, I'll haul for miners
?[ 2009.06.10 20:35:58 ] Temon Oak > I think that Lonad my alt has some basic mining skills... but I am totaly unsure what ships he could mine in!
?[ 2009.06.10 20:36:03 ] Zigzags > either way
?[ 2009.06.10 20:36:04 ] Mangala Solaris > not much in a 14k m3 bestower but it helps.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:36:21 ] Safran Foer > sure, me too, and keep rats away if needed
?[ 2009.06.10 20:36:48 ] Dostov > i mean would it be usefull to have them in Z3 and just mine while i was ratting?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:37:16 ] Zigzags > no too many enemy roaming to do solo
?[ 2009.06.10 20:37:32 ] Zigzags > u cant rat while mining you have to tank the rats
?[ 2009.06.10 20:37:41 ] Zigzags > otherwise they respawn and u might get aggro on miner
?[ 2009.06.10 20:38:19 ] Zigzags > if u solo mine in z30 you gotta be aligned and warp to pos evreytime red enters system or you risk losing 1 of the ships
?[ 2009.06.10 20:41:00 ] Dostov > hmm weird one of these reds was just sitting out side of our pos about 100k away
?[ 2009.06.10 20:41:09 ] Zigzags > ya contract me the bpc if you want
?[ 2009.06.10 20:41:20 ] Temon Oak > eh.. did our guns fire on them?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:41:43 ] Dostov > i didnt notice them do so
?[ 2009.06.10 20:42:02 ] Dostov > he warped away shortly after i warped to pos
?[ 2009.06.10 20:42:02 ] Temon Oak > uh... we do have have ammo in them, right?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:42:03 ] Zigzags > guns take a few to lock...did he leave?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:42:30 ] Dostov > ya he was in a frig
?[ 2009.06.10 20:43:23 ] Mangala Solaris > brb on simud a second
?[ 2009.06.10 20:44:26 ] Safran Foer > ok, got (rough) estimate on required mins as we think we need em
?[ 2009.06.10 20:45:09 ] Safran Foer > trit: 10Mpye: 3.7Mmex: 910kiso: 142kzyd: 7.5kmega: 3k
?[ 2009.06.10 20:45:32 ] Simud Solaris > trit :S
?[ 2009.06.10 20:45:46 ] Safran Foer > lot of trit at pos
?[ 2009.06.10 20:45:50 ] Safran Foer > no problem
?[ 2009.06.10 20:45:55 ] Safran Foer > least of the probs even
?[ 2009.06.10 20:46:10 ] Simud Solaris > hell - im beginning to see the idea of a corp jf. building some of the parts up here in empire.
?[ 2009.06.10 20:46:11 ] Temon Oak > do we still hae like 100m trit?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:46:16 ] Simud Solaris > then ship them down
?[ 2009.06.10 20:46:18 ] Simud Solaris > how much?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:46:44 ] Safran Foer > how much what?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:47:02 ] Temon Oak > How much trit did we have out in z30?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:47:06 ] Simud Solaris > how much! rather* in reference to trit when temon suggested 100mill
?[ 2009.06.10 20:47:22 ] Safran Foer > well 30-40 at least
?[ 2009.06.10 20:48:36 ] Simud Solaris > so bottleneck literallty is the damn sheild emitter?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:48:50 ] Safran Foer > yup, just bought 4 bpcs
?[ 2009.06.10 20:49:15 ] Safran Foer > and some mins will be the prob, as this BS that was built for Aerie ate all of some mins
?[ 2009.06.10 20:50:51 ] Simud Solaris > jumping again, brb
?[ 2009.06.10 20:51:07 ] Zigzags > safran no nocx needed?
?[ 2009.06.10 20:51:09 ] Safran Foer > zigz, bpcs contracted to corp
?[ 2009.06.10 20:51:22 ] Safran Foer > not according to mangs calculations, lemme check
?[ 2009.06.10 20:55:08 ] Safran Foer > yeah missed it somehow, about 60k nocx
?[ 2009.06.10 20:55:27 ] Safran Foer > mang did ok, i missed it
?[ 2009.06.10 20:56:38 ] Temon Oak > say, we dont have 40m trit out here in z30....
?[ 2009.06.10 20:56:48 ] Temon Oak > we have 150m trit
?[ 2009.06.10 20:56:59 ] Zigzags > heh
?[ 2009.06.10 20:57:19 ] Safran Foer > good
?[ 2009.06.10 20:57:24 ] Safran Foer > im off, cya
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Hmm.
A few thoughts on the conversation:
Battleships can be build in z30 (dunno if there is any advantage to it but they can)
If we ditch the full ds for now and focus on a JB node that would be much easier to afford and then over time we could build the two ends up to ds status?
I wouldn't think that the alliance would have anything against that idea, jb node should be more valuable than a ds especially since noone should be able to bring a heap of dreads into for example z30 anyway.
To do that would require 900m, 2 large towers (stupid caldari medium is 250tf short) and 2 bridges.
The running costs of the second "ds" if we could get upgraded would be made moot by the lowered fee as well.
As for the members, some can probably at least temporarily be booted until they become active again. Swuul and Swuuliina for example (since he is away over summer and I doubt he will take any offence, right Jarkko?) I have three chars in the corp for example, and would easily pay for it.
Mining by yourself in fountain is reasonably ok if you can tank the stuff with a hulk, you need to be careful and watch local to warp off if neuts or reds enter system.
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I wouldnt mind paying the fee for my alts. It isnt that much for each person to pay but i guess it adds up fast for the corp..
How about leaving it as optional and then people can pay for their alts(maybe even mains) if they want and can afford it and is around at the time. It isnt enforced and hopefully no pressure on people to pay other than a friendly reminder by corpmail near the time when the alliance fee is around the corner.
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1. I have 2 characters with clones in fountain. One is combat orientated (odin) but the other is a miner (hellfire). I believe Hellfire also has a hulk in fountain so she is in a position to be able to assist with mining. The setback is me rather than the character at present. I am more than happy to let certain people have access to her account so they can use her to mine in my absence if that will help the corp with minerals.
2. Ill happily contribute ISK towards a JF as and when we start looking towards buying one.
3. If it will help with corp expenses feel free to drop Sebnem and Chalcocite out of the corp as the chances of them getting to fountain in the short term are negligable and that will save us a few mill here and there.
4. Im gradually building up quite a stock of minerals in antirri so if the corp ever need minerals to build anything in Hi sec let me know and i can transfer some or all of it across.
5. Ive no particular view on the DS. I am very rarely in the game for more than an hour or two a week atpresent let alone in fountain so im not really in a position to have an opinion. :P
*edit* scratch point 1. fountain hulk no longer exists :P
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Account sharing isn't allowed from what I understand so lets not do that :)