Ma'adim: Direction?

[vacuum]

They're pro Minmatar alliance as well - which means that there'll be a bunch of cloak wearers in there too.
That said, seems like a decent bunch focusing on mining and anti-piracy. They're not trying to hold too much space either, so if we are aggressive with a couple of POSes to help gain sovereignty in their station system - get a cynojammer up, and a cyno beacon, and then get a couple of large moon POSes --- anyone fancy doing a bit of moon scanning for possibles -- then there's a killing to be made.

Just thinking that the guys are all capable and smart, and if getting a couple of moon-miners and a low-trusec ratting/mining POS up gets us a skip-and-jump ahead, so much the better ...

[Rubino]

With the alt corp - I don't think we'll be putting all our eggs into one basket and it does give us a layer of protection should setting up a POS in 0.0 be a direction we'd like to go.

Logistically - A good time to setup is while the zone is fairly quiet - doing it during activity is risky and during a siege can be tough.
I also have a couple of POS modules available in 0.0 - so setting one up can be done fairly quicky.

It's really more if this is something that is or isn't a good idea.

[vacuum]

I vote 'Let's have a vote' :-)

[peo]

Don't know if it's my place to say much considering I'm still on trial (and undecided if I can afford to continue but we will see).
Anyway.
Any direction should be as wide as possible, if we can get a "safe" 0.0 area to be in I think that would be of great importance in the long run. (With safe I mean not close to the frontlines in the warfare going on and that we are "blue" in the holders eyes).

Other than that I think the most important thing is to get the corp up and running fully. Can the manufacturers make what they need? That is sort of the base in a corp imo
Other things would be to try to practice and get escorts for ourselfs by ourselfs in low-sec space for miners and such.

Other than that I don't know much hehe.
No limits with a safety belt is always best

[vacuum]

So, unless there's a late swing in Miami Dade Florida  , looks like the vote is that we work towards moving to 0.0 in 4-8 weeks.

What are the things we need to do to prepare for this? 6 weeks (in between 4 and is a lot of preparation time; so let's use it wisely.

Here are some suggestions for [Corp] and [Individuals]

[Individuals]
- Work out how you're going to make money in 0.0
   * Mining / Ratting in decent trusec make about 30M/hour
   * Corp mining makes more but that's really an 'op' for the corp to get minerals to build stuff
   * moon mining even more but is difficult - and requires moon scanning
- Build a wallet to afford 4-5 of your favourite fully fitted ship types ( Initially stick to T1 insurable ships with T2 modules - this logically works out much cheaper than T2 ships with T2 modules :-) )
- Learn to fly a small fast ship (interceptor)
- Learn Propulsion Jamming I (so you can fit a point)
- If you are close to Electronics V (or have it already you good Caldari Achura Monk Military Pilots you :-) :-) ) then train 'Cynosural Field Theory I' so you can help rubino move  about
- If you are Caldari and don't have a point in 'Battlecruisers' get a couple of points in battlecruisers; the drake is a fine 0.0 ratting ship.
- Get a jump clone setup
- If you're interested in the logistics and industry side of the corporation, train 'Anchoring' to IV; Ideally V because then you can train Starbase Defence.

[Corp]
- What type of alliance do we want to join?
   * Territorial Military
     - Usually requires the corp to have 20-30 active PVP players.
     - examples: GoonFleet; Morsus Mihi; etc.
   * Territorial Industrial
     - Usually requires
     - examples:
   * Non-territorial military (pirate)
     - Usually requires the corp to have 20-30 active PVP players.
     - examples: Pandemic Legion; etc ; etc.
   * Non-territorial military
     - Usually requires
     - examples:

- What's our USP - merchant/industrial?
   * We should offer to come with soverignty claiming deathstar POSes and help establish a jump-bridge network (if one isn't there already).
   * We should be able to say 'hey, we build XXX' - knowing that ally corporations will build '! XXX' :-)
- Scope out the space we're potentially moving to; we're looking for systems with:
   * Moons with materials we want
   * High numbers of belts (ideally containing Arkonor/Bistot ... Crokite)
   * Good Trusec rating (< -0.3)
- How many hops to empire for a jump freighter / carrier - let's get cyno alts into those losec systems on the borderlands - ideally to find a nice quiet 1 station system
- Buffer the corp wallet to be able to afford the towers etc.

Any more for any more?

[Warcold]

0.0 and alliances is really something I know too little about atm.

But if we want to move industry into lowsec any 'non-territorial' sounds the way we should NOT go.

Our corp is just too small to field more than 5 or so PvP pilots atm, so that narrows the possibilities i guess. To either industrial alliances or PvP-alliances that accept smaller corps.
What about this corp Beo mentioned in this other thread?

A pure industrial alliance is not something that really appeals to me, but the same goes for a pure PvP-alliance. But dont know if alliances are 100% this or that.

[peo]

0.0 and alliances is really something I know too little about atm.

But if we want to move industry into lowsec any 'non-territorial' sounds the way we should NOT go.

Our corp is just too small to field more than 5 or so PvP pilots atm, so that narrows the possibilities i guess. To either industrial alliances or PvP-alliances that accept smaller corps.
What about this corp Beo mentioned in this other thread?

A pure industrial alliance is not something that really appeals to me, but the same goes for a pure PvP-alliance. But dont know if alliances are 100% this or that.

Most alliances need manufacturing/industry as well I would suspect. Replacing all thoose battleships and what not is expensive

[vacuum]

A pure industrial alliance is not something that really appeals to me, but the same goes for a pure PvP-alliance. But dont know if alliances are 100% this or that.

You're absolutely right, and in my estimation, it's better to be an industrial corp in a PVP alliance, than a PVP corp in an industrial alliance.
Note that things aren't 100%; but logistics is the thing that does for alliances, almost always.

Most alliances need manufacturing/industry as well I would suspect. Replacing all thoose battleships and what not is expensive

Having an effective industrial and logistics backbone is as critically important to the alliance as having a decent intelligence/black ops group.

[Rubino]

Null sec (0.0) is better than low-sec in many ways.
PvP is more directed and less random - and it's generally safer for all types of ops.
The general combat arena is more directed and has better/defined objectives.

In terms of jumping stuff in/out - Red has lvl 5 jump skills - giving around 14ly range with the Chimera - and it should be around 12ly for the Rhea (Jump Freighter) & Rorqual (Cap Industrial).

Edit: Regarding the Geminate 0.0 alliance - I have made contact with a corp that runs the K25 station.  One of my chars was in the station when I reactivated the account - so it was prudent to join their corp.
They're a friendly bunch, helpful and have been very accomodating.

I have some cyno books for the corp hanger - so if as suggested if you have electronics V - it would be helpful to take 30 mins to train the skill.  We'll do a couple of "dry" runs beforehand and I'll provide you with cyno eq'd frigs/cruisers.  I also have 20 frigs/cruisers at a few stations (from when I used to provide ships in 0.0 for my corp).

At TDE I have POS EQ - 8-10 POS guns/missile batteries, a corp hanger, a lab and some hardeners.  So setting up a 0.0 POS is mostly about the fuel/tower.
So at some point (when we know where we're going) I'll arrange for them to be moved.

Update:
With the voting now complete - most people wanted 4-8 weeks before moving to 0.0 - which gives us a target of 28th Jan - 28th Feb when planning logistics.
Most 0.0 alliances will want you to move in within a week or so from joining. 


When thinking/planning skills - it's generally an idea to plan tanking skills before ships/guns as tanking will generally apply to all ships and you'll have a good foundation later for anything you'll fly.

[Warcold]

I am at electronics 4, but if you are ppl short I will train it to 5.
But I guess that Constantine has elec 5. Hope he drains the alcohol from his system any time soon and will log in again. 

[Rubino]

The more the better.  I have alts both in the corp and out that I can log if needed.  But it is pretty to see the wormholes open

[Rubino]

When in 0.0 - the corp will always have spare frigs/cruisers (and hopefully BC's) as well as fittings available to the corp at the POS/station.
BS's will be harder due to the mineral requirements.

With fittings the best approach is to knock up fitting packs and put them up as long term contract to the corp.
Then when you need a ship - you can grab the fittings in one go and return to combat in a few minutes.

Generally in 0.0 there is more need for tacklers (and therefore smaller ships) than for dmg (there's usually plenty who can provide that).

[vacuum]

When in 0.0 - the corp will always have spare frigs/cruisers (and hopefully BC's) as well as fittings available to the corp at the POS/station.
BS's will be harder due to the mineral requirements.

The way this is often run is:

"take corp T1 ship, insure it with your money. When it's destroyed, post your killmail and you're refunded the cost of insurance" then
"take corp T1 ship, insure it with your money. When it's destroyed, post your killmail and you're refunded the cost of insurance" then
...


This often depends on you flying what's called a 'reimbursement fit' which is where the below comes in:

With fittings the best approach is to knock up fitting packs and put them up as long term contract to the corp.
Then when you need a ship - you can grab the fittings in one go and return to combat in a few minutes.

Generally in 0.0 there is more need for tacklers (and therefore smaller ships) than for dmg (there's usually plenty who can provide that).

When we get there, we can define the reimbursement fits and the skills required to pilot them.
A lot of this depends on how we take the corp in terms of operating model; there are a few ways of doing this:

1. Capitalist
2. Communist
3. Communalist

1. Capitalist - the corp runs an internal store selling ships at cost price to members. The corp has a set tax rate, but anything else is down to individuals and their wallets.
2. Communist - individuals have 0 wallets. Crazy concept, but the corp pays for everything, Everything is done out of Corporate Hangar Arrays and the corporate wallet. Large purchases are made by directors (i.e. nobody buys a chimera just 'cos they feel like it) - but everyone contributes and receives the reward of their contribution. 100% tax.
3. Communalist - individuals have wallets, tax rate is high-ish (40%+), corp gives away to members a bunch of stuff (T1 ships, modules, ammo, Liquid Nitrogen, Oxygen etc), all 'corp' expenses are picked up by the corp, T2 ships are often built and then sold internally at subsidy.

I prefer communalist, but I've played in all sorts of hybrids.
But in terms of general direction, I think we should focus on industrialist/logistics with a PVP presence. Being the guys who conquer systems and build capital ships is a great thing ...

[Rubino]

I prefer communalist, but I've played in all sorts of hybrids.
But in terms of general direction, I think we should focus on industrialist/logistics with a PVP presence. Being the guys who conquer systems and build capital ships is a great thing ...

I agree 100% - it helps minimise the "fear" factor of 0.0 combat and encourages a go-get-em attitude.

[Mangala]

UFA - if that is still the interested party has gained another couple of systems from TCF (From what I read on UFA's recruitment threads they are renters of TCF's) who are currently in the process of moving North to Deklien as well as helping the Swarm fight -A- and BoB in the south.  Should be a good group to at least start our 0.0 adventure with, although having KIA as neighbours and possible allies is worrying as its only a matter of time before Eddz falls out with his neighbours.

But it would be a good fight!