Hands of Justice
What we have played => EVE Online => Topic started by: Caradir on December 04, 2008, 01:33:21 PM
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WE NEED A DIRECTION !!
and i need sleep
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OK we have stepped in to the universe that is Eve. We are members of Ma'adim Logistics.
1) What should be our main direction(s)? and how should we go about it?
2) What do we need to achieve these aims?
3) What roles can you fill /want to fill ?
4)Initially the corp may need donations of ores/minerals etc to get its "fighting fund" together, what would you class as reasonable expectations of members in this start up phase?
ill add further things as discussion advances/ new thoughts arrive.
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1) I believe a "finger in every pie" approach would suit us, as it allows us all to do what we like as well as working together towards the bigger picture. So Mining always needs to be a strong area in a corp. Strong Mining leads to Manufacturing (decide what we can produce to maximise profits) Mission runners are important for raising corp standings in a given area. People running R&D agents gives us access to Datacores for use in Invention procedures.
2) From my viewpoint and the roles i can bring, id need a reliable research base /manufacturing platform. Minerals, datacores BPOs (of whatever we decide to aim at, Supplies of probes for exploration duties. Friends to help me clear up those sweet sites (if i ever find any ;) )
3) Constantine is an explorer, he has decent manufacturing and research abilities (which im currently making stronger), During Mining Ops he is a Hauler in hid Badger II.
4)Now Eve is all about the mighty ISK so im not saying give anything for nothing. Id propose selling ores (as Thera has perfect refines and would maximize returns) at 50 -75% market value to corp. This allows the corp to A) sell minerals for profits to add to purse, B) sell some and stockpile for the future (the corp only needs to break even on purchases from members). Id say we could easily donate those unwanted Modules (they breakdown with the proper skills into nice minerals) to the corp, or again maybe agree on a discounted price which to sell to corp for. A 100% tax weekend where your ammos/crystals etc are paid for by corp but any bounties/ minerals mined go straight to corp purse (all this requires is a time donation from its members) more ramblings to come.
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Which corporation(s) would be advisable for me to build up standing with to benefit our corp? So far I've built I've ran missions for Caldari Navy and Spacelane Patrol.
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Which corporation(s) would be advisable for me to build up standing with to benefit our corp? So far I've built I've ran missions for Caldari Navy and Spacelane Patrol.
For the aim of our own POS in Hisec - any caldari croporation would be good (of which the tow you mention are prime examples) - if we wanted one elsewhere we'd have to relocate fully and start a corp wide standings grind there instead...
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1) I believe a "finger in every pie" approach would suit us, as it allows us all to do what we like as well as working together towards the bigger picture. So Mining always needs to be a strong area in a corp. Strong Mining leads to Manufacturing (decide what we can produce to maximise profits) Mission runners are important for raising corp standings in a given area. People running R&D agents gives us access to Datacores for use in Invention procedures.
2) From my viewpoint and the roles i can bring, id need a reliable research base /manufacturing platform. Minerals, datacores BPOs (of whatever we decide to aim at, Supplies of probes for exploration duties. Friends to help me clear up those sweet sites (if i ever find any ;) )
3) Constantine is an explorer, he has decent manufacturing and research abilities (which im currently making stronger), During Mining Ops he is a Hauler in hid Badger II.
4)Now Eve is all about the mighty ISK so im not saying give anything for nothing. Id propose selling ores (as Thera has perfect refines and would maximize returns) at 50 -75% market value to corp. This allows the corp to A) sell minerals for profits to add to purse, B) sell some and stockpile for the future (the corp only needs to break even on purchases from members). Id say we could easily donate those unwanted Modules (they breakdown with the proper skills into nice minerals) to the corp, or again maybe agree on a discounted price which to sell to corp for. A 100% tax weekend where your ammos/crystals etc are paid for by corp but any bounties/ minerals mined go straight to corp purse (all this requires is a time donation from its members) more ramblings to come.
I understood how everything you said here works and how to do it up as far as '1)' then you lost me.
sorry guys but you are going to have to be patient with me. Ive not got a clue on any of that as yet and ive only even ventured into about 5 systems on my weee destroyer.
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Well Mac, don't worry, cause you are only a week or so behind on some of us. You'll get by...
Just get to know the game a bit and you'll understand more of how moneymaking/corps works. I read a guide (http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/mn06.asp (http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/mn06.asp)) every other day or so and it helps a lot!
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Mac, I understood about as much :) But I've decided I'll focus on one thing at a time, else it's easy to just be overwhelmed. At the moment I am figuring out Exploration, and I think I am starting to get the hang of the thing (I think you were online yesterday when I stumbled on my first Anomaly and then after that into the Deadspace pocket (which sadly somebody had apparently cleared already, as there was nobody there, despite the fact that I got warnings of the drones getting tougher by each pocket I advanced inside)).
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Ok, some random preliminary thoughts:
- What makes a corp succesful?
Assets, system control, unique know-how in blueprints, the ability to bully others around. Anything I missed?
- Assuming I'm on the money with the above, power (to bully) comes with money, unique know-how comes with money, system control needs POSs which cost a lot of money, so it all boils down to assets for a startup-corp.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
- Which is the quickest way to collect wads of cash for a startup corp?
I'm thinking mining, which requires relatively few resources to start with, about 1 month worth of training to get into a good mining-ship, and I'm assuming about as much to fly haulers.
Protection would be the biggest issue, since the real treasure floats around in 0.0.
- Money by itself is worthless, so our biggest decision would be which direction to take after we collected a good amount by our mining operations.
Expanding on what we know could be good at this point, so investing in better logistics would be good. I'm guessing our own lowsec(?) station would be a good goal here (shorten the supply route) would be an eventual goal, but until then we may be able to buy a processing slot at another corporation's POS?
Go into refining/industry, use the funds to expand our "protection" division and basically turn into a merc/piracy corp (fun!) :D, use the assets for even more blueprints than Beo aleady has in his hangar and become R&D focused ... though my gut feeling says R&Ding doesn't really require a corporation beyond supplying the blueprints (again, correct me if I'm wrong...)
Then again, I may be a completely misguided noob here making these assumptions. ???
Flame away! :)
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* What makes a corp succesful?
Assets, system control, unique know-how in blueprints, the ability to bully others around. Anything I missed?
maybe...
- effort
- focus
- good logistics
but mebbe im too much on the details here...
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Ah sorry, I probably worded that badly. What I meant was: What does a corp have to achieve to be considered "succesful"? :)
I was just trying to pinpoint a goal. :) Good logistics, and working toward it in an efficient and mission-focused way will probably contribute greatly to achieving these goal(s).
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Wouldn't initially, before the skills are good enough, salvging be the fastest way to make money? That is the impression I have got from various newbie guides. Running Level 1 missions at least is quite a money-flood: 150k from mission reward, ~150k from bounties, ~100k from loot (double that if the mission is to kill rogue drones), ~400k from salvage (double that if the mission is to kill rogue drones).
I have alrady spent some 60 million ISK the past week, half from that from Vac. With that I have acquired skill books so that I should be ok far to next spring, and some gear (altough nothing which would make me cry when I eventually succeed to blow myself up), and despite that I still have a balance of ~12 million ISK IIRC. I seriously doubt mining would have been as profitable with the crappy skills and gear I'd have for that :)
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Possibly :)
But you don't really need a corp for salvaging, do you? ;D
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Possibly :)
But you don't really need a corp for salvaging, do you? ;D
No, but you need money for a corp :)
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Don't forget also that the parts you salvage can be used to make rigs..
Which can be used in corp or sold on..
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Good points. :)
Starting out the corp as a R&D/production focused business sounds a little ambitious to me though - and I'm pretty sure the newer guys wouldn't be able to contribute there. :(
With my very limited experience in Eve I'm mainly trying to get my head around what to aim for - hence my post.
Since there's so much to do and so many long roads to walk before you're even marginally competent in one thing, imho choices will have to be made.
At this point, I actually have more experience in writing business plans than in knowing what should be in the business plan for Ma'adim Logistics. Which is a little disconcerting, really. :P
For my own character, I assumed we'd be aiming for the mining route - so Aicha will be able to fly the medium Hulk by Christmas if Evemon calculated that right, and the biggest hulk about 1 month later. Which is a long time, but still doable. If I'm completely wrong in aiming for the mining-thing, please let me know asap, as I'd still have time to change the training direction to something Completely Different.
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I think Beo has a manufacturer char - and the good thing is that anything we do - mining, missions, etc - all contribute.
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My char Constantine is research/invention and manufacturing (which im working on making uber) as well as exploration (finger in every pie). Only prob is i think that we need a direction. Ships? Modules? Rigs? now the reasons why i need to know which direction to send my training down is that although i have most of the necessary skills (spent 50 Mill isk today on books) i need a path for my plan instead of my usual "ooh shiney" approach.
IF we choose to go down the manufacturing route (ill be doing it alone if not for the corp ;) ) Then its not just the manufacturers that make the cash. as the corp will then buy ores, minerals and salvage from the members giving you guys a decent price without having to play the markets too much.
Invention really goes hand in hand with manufacturing, its the only way (now) of getting T2 BPCs.
Research allows making any BPOs that are owned more efficient in materials and time, and allows Copies to be made of those sweet expensive BPOs that can be sold.
As with most things in Eve the miners are THE people that keep all of this moving without the demand for ores being met nothing can be made.
Without researchers running R&D agents no Invention can go on as Datacores are a must for that operation.
Explorers can also find datacores, BPs, hidden Asteroid belts that can conmtain roids not normally seen in that region.
Now we could stick to Mining/Refining but that isnt really where the money is, i dont want a small slice of the pie but by myself (and anyone of us on our own) that is all im going to get in the short term. i see us working together for mutual gain to make us ALL rich so we can buy the toys we want, train the skills we want, fly that cool ship you just have to fly.
Everyone can help no matter what there skillset is aimed at, shooty types run missions, raising corp standing getting us closer to the day when we can run a POS in hi-sec, meaning no more queueing for manufacturing/ invention space at those damn public stations.
So i guess my question is this : Do i make stuff on my own keeping all the profits and expanding my own solo enterprise? or do we as a Corp decide together on a direction? find that space in the market for us, mutually benefiting from that, and carve our own space in Eve, we may be (fairly) new on the scene but that doesnt mean we cant aim big.
I sign out
Constantine
Explorer,Researcher,Inventor, Manufacturer, Hauler and part-time schizophrenic. (just dont ask me to mine or kill hard stuff ;) )
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To be honest, I am still quite lost at what to do. As long as I can get my adrenaline dose pretty regularily (running missions in safe space doesn't seem to provide that anymore, so I've started to do some missions in 0.4, as the excitment seems to be much higher there ;D) I am ready to what is needed. Yesterday I did not sell away my salvaged stuff, I suppose they will be needed by manufacturers?
Also, just for the kicks, I tried some manufacturing (built a Shuttle, I have that blueprint now btw if anybody needs it). I found out the Kubinen manufacturing and lab sites to be empty (Space Patrol has a station there, ie same corp that holds the station that is the home for Maadi HQ), and Kubinen is just three jumps away from Anttiri. So if somebody needs free (not free from fee, but free from queue) manufacturing or research locations, then it seems Kubinen has such facilities very near to our HQ. Altough if anything valuable needs to be transported out, then it has to be done in convoy, usually there are only 1-3 players around, but quite often they appear to be flashy red skulls (I've not halted and asked what it means, but have figured if something had a skull and flashes with red light, then it prolly does not mean "Hello, I love you, won't you tell me your name?", as I seem to remember from the tutorial that flashing red is *bad*).
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If it flashes RED then
You are a........
http://www.youtube.com/v/3AzpByR3MvI&hl=en&fs=1
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Im quite happy to help out with whatever the corp needs.
Im mainly running missions at present, building my rep with various factions and in my down time (i.e. When im sorting the kids out hence semi afk) i mine. Im saving everything i mine at present and also as soon as im up to cruiser level ill get salvaging up and running to so ill save what i get from that. Hopefully ill gradually get a fair stash of bits i can then pass onto the corp.
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As I have said elsewhere, the current set of goals I feel we should have - over and beyond the majority of the newer players finding their way around and giving EVE the time it requires - is one which takes us towards being able to get a foot on the ground in respect of Tech 3 and its release in the March 2009 expansion (EVE releases in a box then too, with 60 days time included for new starters it is rumoured, so we may pick up more people we know :D), rather than see ourselves trying to compete in the already over-staurated Tech 1 and since Invention, T2 markets. The Rig markets are a major exception to this, its possible to compete here as its very accessible to people from pretty much day 1 although at that stage you would find profits hard to make, but giving you that warm feeling inside.
Tech 3, as I have said will require a combination of every skill-set we are currently looking at:
Exploration skilled characters to find the unstable wormholes to the new space (probably more than this however nothing is known about the actual space we will find there yet);
Shooty characters to kill npc's and players that get in our way there (and to do missions to work on standings for our own POS in Hisec);
Miner characters to mine the rumoured new ore's that Tech 3 will require;
Manufacturer focused characters to do the work on Tech 3 production;
Research characters and some sort of POS access with which to research the tech 3 Blueprints we may locate (again this is theorectical until CCP releases more info on the expansion, after Xmas is the best bet there) so as to reduce our costs overall;
Transport characters who shall ship materials and things around, provide the transport backbone of the corp (hauling maybe boring, but its necessary: this includes freighters, jump-freighters, deepspace transports, Orca, and anything else CCP throws at us);
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In the meantime, we can all try our hands at the things that I have listed above, or all pick a role and head towards that, trying it out on the current markets, current manufacturing systems and the like by making/buying things etc for use within the corp - improve our infrastructure if you will. That way we have the knowledge when the expansion goes live and really get going. This period of settling down and building up can also see us increase the funds held by the corp and what not ready to outlay for the higher end skills for members if necessary, and maybe even aid in funding any forays into pvp we wish to make (even if its on a t1 ships level) or are forced upon us by people War-Deccing us.
This is me rambling prebreakfast, but this is a thoughts thread :)
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OK any ideas on Which rigs make decent profits? Price of a BPO researched pref (as it saves time)? Current cash flow id initially focus on 1 with plans to add expansion at 1 further rig type per month ;) slow but steady increase.
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NICE info Beo!
Me still having that miner-mindset, I'm thinking now that it'd be great to be able to get some base of operations in the new space (either through POS or by having good npc relations/snuggling up to an alliance for their protection) and having short supply routes to the new (and presumably, expensive) ore.
Get a manufacturing plant there, and churn out goodies! :D
I'll likely get a second account when I am able to pay for it with ISKs, and aim this second character more at manufacturing...though if things go well chopping away at rocks I may also turn that one into a second miner over time. :)
Just out of curiosity, what kind of ship do you need to actually have a sufficient scare effect to protect a mining operation? While shooting stuff is fun, this seems like a potentially mindnumbing job, floating around looking at others work the spacerocks....
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depends of course on where you are mining because there will also be Rats turning up, but in empire space concord takes care of security as long as you understand how to avoid the various scams aimed at turning you red. Mostly its about can transfers running smoothly.
South of the border is a different story of course.
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A few drones can deal with any belt rats that might pop. The scammers /flippers /baiters are what you need to watch for.
Im of the school that id rather loose a can than a ship, so if my can gets flipped notch a loss and change system. ( i used to get pissed dock then come out in my cruiser hunting them down, until i learned the hard way that Eve players are all bastards and cannot be trusted) The reasons for this are that although you may see 1 target usually another is hiding waiting to decloak, web and scram you. Rifters used to be the weapon of choice for hi sec pirates (not sure if that still holds true) so i always get wary if i spot any in space, and loss of a can whilst annoying ISK wise and Time wise, can quickly be recovered but a HULK (~ 25 Mill) is a harder pill to swallow.
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Exploration skilled characters to find the unstable wormholes to the new space (probably more than this however nothing is known about the actual space we will find there yet);
Shooty characters to kill npc's and players that get in our way there (and to do missions to work on standings for our own POS in Hisec);
Miner characters to mine the rumoured new ore's that Tech 3 will require;
I will probably have characters based around these points to start with. I think my current charactr will be a shooty boy - Ive already started working on a miner and explorer though they are un-corped at present. Im just raising their bsic skills as we speak.
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Mac....you started 3 accounts already? o_O
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Mac....you started 3 accounts already? o_O
yup lol. Used the kids details for the other two and they are on the 14 day trials ;D
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Mission runs are a good cash cow for a corp. Lvl 4 missions can net large sums of cash.
Best way, is to focus on a single corp with kill missions and high quality agents (eve-agents.com is your friend). Find the guy in corp with the highest standings to any NPC corp right now might be a way to go. Also, focussing on a single agent builds that agents effective quality with you which improves the rewards from that agent.
Top tips for missioneers:
- Train people up to Assault Frigates - they can handle most missions up to lvl 3.
- Run missions in parties at the highest level you can find to boost the standings of every one, eg. I can run lvl 4s for Theology Council so I can do the mission while others in my party are sitting around mining - I hand in on behalf of party they still get the standings increase and will eventually get lvl 4 mission offers themselves, or they can salvage and loot behind me making the whole process much quicker.
- some missions have pockets of asteroids worth huge sums of cash - don't complete the mission until you have mined out the pocket. NB in mission deadspace it is quite difficult to be found by pirates so you can mine in relative peace.
- some missions reset after downtime, if you don't kill the final boss. This means you can farm them for bounties on the rats and loot drops; Angel Extravaganza is a good example.
- don't complete a mission without a bookmark to the spot. Otherwise you will have a hell of a time finding all that lovely loot. Also, mission bookmarks make good safe-spots for future reference if you need to run and hide.
- don't butch it out with mission rats, start to align and warp if you get half way through armor. Pick a celestial object and click align to, turn off any afterburners (you will warp when you reach 75% of your maximum speed - which takes a lot longer to reach with an AB on).
- loot: I tend to fry (ie. reprocess) anything less than a meta level 4 item, unless I could actually use it in my fit of course. Don't sell to the buy orders - they are deliberately low to tempt the "can't be arsed" crowd. Save up loot into large piles, saves on sales commission that way. Wait till you have a hauler full of stuff to take to the nearest hub to put up sell orders.
- make your own ammunition from loot frying, buy the ammunition BPOs for yourself.
- save the loyalty points for good implants to then sell or use for yourself (another reason to focus on a single corp).
- eve-survival.org (available on through the in-game browser) is essential reading.
- insure your ships at platinum level, have a spare in the garage if possible.
- wear sunscreen
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The scammers /flippers /baiters are what you need to watch for.
as a general rule I used to have a can which I mined into with 1 piece of veld in it - I would then transfer through it into a hauler. If anybody approached the can I would blow it up with my drones or, if there was one piece in it wait and see what he did. Seeing an "oh fuck" in local from the guy when he realised he had turned himself flashy red for the sake of one piece of veld was priceless - I decided to let him off, but if my corpie with a stealth bomber hadn't been afk it might have turned out differently.
Also, don't leave drones out some scams work off that - I'm not entirely sure how but best not. The rules on aggression and who can shoot how and when in Empire are serious rocket-science I don't even pretend to really understand (a bit like the rule against split infinitives).