Hands of Justice
What we have played => Warhammer Online => Topic started by: vacuum on September 30, 2008, 11:23:26 PM
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Currently we have 78 guild members - of which approx 50 are above 10, 40 above 15. Don't know how many of those are alts - certainly I have 2 guilded alts (Jacq/Underworld).
The question came up in guild chat -- are we going to slow down/pause the invitation process and allow people to get to know each other and focus on building strength as well as size?
I have repeated that question here to start the debate ...
V
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you could be on to something there maybe limit recruitment for a while to friends of current members.
have a settling in period but i think we need to know how many in the guild are unique accounts and how many are alts.
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Going off memory, theres about 20 alts (of mains of course) in the regiment. So thats around 55ish real people.
I do have plans to stop recruitment as soon as all current applicants are on board (if they have alts, they will be welcome too of course, or if current members create or have alts too), Also I'll sit down and look at our figures on classes in the regiment and when we do need to recruit we do so on a very limited basis - Needed classes only that sort of thing (Members have always been allowed to recommend friends to join my guilds even during closed periods, this is not something I'll ever halt).
Anything over 100 characters including alts begins to get unmanageable and feels too anonymous anyways for me to feel happy, with smaller groups forming within that and it all getting cliquey - been there, done that.
More importantly when it comes to size (its not the size of the boat....) a medium sized guild with lots of active players (Alts and Mains) will rank faster than a larger guild with the same ratio of active to less-active as we have. Reknown on the other hand is gained by them faster down to more members able to do RVR and so on. However I havent yet discovered why a regiment/guild needs to earn Reknown.
PS: Heated Debate suggests democracy - ha!
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I like Beosvirs point of view :)
Guild rank rises by gaining exp and gaining renown. The exact formula however, as far as I know, is not known.
Btw (off-topic alert!) it really is Renown, not Reknown. Took me about six months to figure that out :-[
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Having run several guilds in WoW and other games i'd agree that 100 members is a good stop point. Even with that number you are going to find the guild will develop factions, Its something that will always happen. (The last guild i ran ended up with over 500 members and was a nightmare :o )
As far as alts go. Can you not create/use a specific rank for alts only and/or have a thread here where people can put all their characters on one post. That way the post creator can keep the start of it updated with the full list.
Im glad you mentioned the fact that we'll always be open for friends of member to join. That has always been one of the biggest bugbears ive had to get over. When others have insisted closed means closed to all. Ive lost alot of guildies who've left cos i couldnt persuade the rest of guild management to let their r/l mates in.
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I'm pretty happy with the size being right about now. We have a big bloom of low-mid teens and a few front-runners nearing 30. By the time we catch up with the forum registrations and their mates, we'll be up to 100 characters, and maybe 60 players - this seems like a resonable place to take a break.
We can then start focusing on events and improving our character base.
My unstatistically accurate feeling is that we are short of:
Pansy Elves:
White Lions
Swordmasters
Archmages
Awesome Dwarves:
Runepriests
In my perception, this unfortunately means we are "healer low" as the WP mechanic doesn't make it a pure healer class (though there are some damn good WP healers out there).
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I agree keep it tight and not let it get out of hand, better to be small and perfectly formed ;) and make alliances than have a huge amount of inactive bods.
Though agree as mentioned that real life mates should be allowed in. After all their sort of pre-approved if folks know them anyway and likely makes coordination easier for get togethers as folks can give their mates a shout for Sieges and such to get them online.
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All I know is that I don't know reaaaaaaally know anyone well gamewise except for Beo.
And guild chat is boring. :(
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All I know is that I don't know reaaaaaaally know anyone well gamewise except for Beo.
And guild chat is boring. :(
The knowledge will come with time.
At present people are playing a new game with all new areas etc etc so they are more concentrating on what they are doing in game which means guild chat may not be at the level we came to expect with game like WoW. I can remember tanking karazan on a number of occassions whilst watching TV ::) thats how well we got to know that game ;)
I have to admit that when im engrossed in a quest or PvP or even PQ i dont tend to look at the guild chat much. But then thats what comes from rolling a healer as my main this time around. I spend most of my time watching team members health bars so i can stick in the heals as quick as poss.
The chat will pick up (and probably get more controversial) as people settle into the game and guild.
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Have to say one of the first things I did on joining the guild (as per most MMO's Ive been in) I setup a chat tab exclusively for Guild chat. That way I can easily scroll back through to catch up on it after a scenario or PQ without having to read past other stuff. Even been known to detach said chat tab and keep it elsewhere in other games but don't fancy that level of clutter in this game.
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i fond im only looking at guildchat when things arent trying to kill me :) as macrune said once we get to know the game as well as that other which shall remain unnamed and adventure a bit more do sieges ertc we will soon get to know each other.
plus im the quiet lurking type i only say something if its required /profound or im drunk and talking crap ;)
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More importantly when it comes to size (its not the size of the boat....) a medium sized guild with lots of active players (Alts and Mains) will rank faster than a larger guild with the same ratio of active to less-active as we have. Reknown on the other hand is gained by them faster down to more members able to do RVR and so on. However I havent yet discovered why a regiment/guild needs to earn Reknown.
Do you have any source for the guild ranking (medium vs large) other than player speculation?
All I have been able to find - admittedly I have only been researching it since yesterday as part of my general getting up to speed on game mechanics, so am not confident that I know it all (yet) - suggests that practically everything that is said in various forums about how to rank fast is invented by players. :D
To summarize what we do know from when this came up and developers answered:
a) http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1746103#post1746103
b) http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1750395#post1750395
c) http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1750446#post1750446
d) http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1751202#post1751202
e) http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1765292#post1765292
f) http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1765636#post1765636
From a) any active character that gains XP contributes XP to the guild
From b) only active members are counted, inactive alts/mains do not count for either positive or negative aspects - it is the same as if they were not there at all, and that it is supposed to work reasonably well no matter whether you are large or small, causal or hardcore.
From c) yes, a) also goes for those at 40 even if they do not, actually, gain XP due to being at the cap. They contribute what they would have were they not capped.
From d) what contributes active/inactive is up for guessing by the playerbase - i.e. no gaming of it for a long time, but likely to be many people thinking up pet theories ("surely, it is logical that it would be defined as...") and working as if their pet theory is the right one.
From e) yes, inactive accounts count as inactive for XP purposes, but the "are you active" formula has nothing to do with that :D (oh, the horrible questions people ask)
From f) yes, if you play your main half the time and an alt the other half and are equally focused on doing stuff that'll gain you xp while doing so, you are either not at all, or only to an insignificant degree, decreasing your guild contribution compared to what it would be, if you were playing your main all the time.
How about a snapshot of WARDB:
http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?sf=1&browse=10#guilds:0-6+1
Yes, there are a lot of small guilds in the first positions, but overall large, medium, small... and gigantic (a friendly wave to the oversized Goon Squad :D) are pretty much mixed up with no rhyme or reason at this point in time.
It seems (i.e. I'm probably deluding myself :D) remarkably likely that number of active players (the inactive have already been removed from the equation) means next to nothing compared to what those players, who are active, do while they are active - aka. a system based not so much on what you are doing at which level but on how much xp you get for the time you are online compared with how much one would be normal to get for the time (for some standard) scaled by average recent guild activity, probably interpolated with a spline or more complex structure, getting added to the guild xp.
In other words... While there are any number of good reasons for wanting a guild of a certain size or with a certain amount of activity for social and game goal related purposes, anybody who currently try to factor in "how will we gain guild ranks quickest" are, based on current knowledge I could find, probably fooling themselves rather than gaming the system (unless their "how to gain ranks quickest" is based on being very, very, active while they are active and hence accomplish more while actually online).
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Excellent post Peter, definitely food for thought on the whole guild ranking mechanics (which I have to admit is just a means to get more "stuff" for me, rather than "My guilds is x rank, ner ner ner ner" style thing).
As for recruitment in general guys. 3 more days of open recruitment and I'll switch us to a closed status for a while, give us all a chance to get to know one another, play together more regularly and so on. Once I feel we are doing well on these lines, I'll reopen recruitment on a limited basis.
Note, this closure will not affect friends of members who wish to apply, they will always be an exception to this rule :)
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So do we know what classes we are in need of yet? Have we got any obvious shortfalls or gluts?
I have been playing a BW as my main on this server, which is the charecter I have in this guild, but I also have a lvl 9 Engineer, lvl 6 WP and a lvl 4 IB.
The trouble I am having at the moment is sticking to one of them as I enjoy them all and I thought if the guild is horribly short ina certian area I could focus on that or at least use that as my main alt ;D
Nap.
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So do we know what classes we are in need of yet? Have we got any obvious shortfalls or gluts?
http://handsofjustice.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=192.0
Dem sticky threads
dem no shiny
;) :)
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Oops! :-[
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So do we know what classes we are in need of yet? Have we got any obvious shortfalls or gluts?
http://handsofjustice.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=192.0
Dem sticky threads
dem no shiny
;) :)
Are those number counting everyone including "alts" or just unique memebers?
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Currently its just including all members - alts or mains. Once I finish identifying all alts, amendments will be made to it to show the numbers of mains and alts separately.