BC possibly? renting off -A- info.

[peo]

Stainwagon (stain, rol etc) are blue to aaa, have been for a long while.

Yes but that translate to them being blue to -a- renters?
I know that goons and PL were blue to eachother when we lived in fountain but we sure as hell weren't blue to goons

[peo]

Well sins original statement of "full and exclusive rights" isn't really full nor exclusive.

Apparantly moon mining is restricted. This in the way that -a- at any time can make a claim and we will have to remove the pos/poses so they can take the resource.

In my opinion this changes a lot.
Basically what it means is that at most we can hope for is to run the lowest reactions using the most common materials, this is the fernite carbide reaction in the case for tenerifis.

This also means they will probably limit other things, cyno generators, cyno jammers whatnot (and despite me asking I suspect they wont allow refineries on poses if anyone would want it...)

He has also "decided" to go down to 2 systems due to cost. So initially the entire alliance will have to live on 16 belts in -0.3 sec.

So, before tonight I'd like some views of this.

As I see it what we can hope for is barely paying the rent by running fernite carbide reactions in order to be allowed to run fernite carbide reaction. Not really what I think sounds fun. The chance of being able to get anything "good" without -a- knowing about it is 0 they have held these systems for a long time and know exactly whats in them. Also the implication of moon limitations is that renters should be removable easily. It would only be a short matter of time before we would be forced into aaac and pay the same without any say in anything.

Quite simply, I'm not sure I can live with those terms. I at least want the opportunity to find something of value in order to use it for our advantage.

[peo]

After a cooling down shower having thought about it.
We can still give it a month (not exactly as if any of us are that interested in ratting..) if we are allowed to join proper fleets and shoot real stuff then it could be ok. But proper fleets isn't "local defense against roamers from providence" or "roam for 2h in provi..." (or wherever roamers might come from).

This is for one month and unless we have access to something fun by that time... well I for one won't spend time for no reward.

This ofc means I wont move capitals down there either, too much of a pain. I'll probe the systems and live in khanid highsec or something.

[Mangala]

It is pretty messy on that score - and how he didnt get absolute confirmation properly either on this.  Seems Rusrock (or however you spell it) is thinking on your page too. Becomes MUCH harder for anyone moving there to make the isk needed to support the alliance down there, without them burning out. Rus also raised the point that the 6bill initially would be hard to raise (except maadis share as ), surely they arent doing this and assuming the isk will just appear for the first month etc?

I know it maybe unlikely they would ask, but simply the fact they can is a bit meh, when you work in the realities of how little isk would be made by folks out there towards the bills its just a kick in the teeth.

I mean im still for a move out there, but with more reservations than I had in the first place! (PS Roaming in provi is shooting real stuff ).

[peo]

I know I just mean well you know my aspirations maybe its enough to do that but I want to be able to with reasonable amount of work for us to field GOOD groups and actually get noticed. Being forced to move a pos because some random russian in aaa wants a safe spot pos for ratting in our systems isn't exactly what i think is ok.

(i seriously doubt they will not if they want go there and rat or run plexes or whatnot.)

But as said, 1 month, if we can have enough fun to make it worthwhile then good.

[Warcold]

We will become renters, not part of -a-, which means you prolly shouldnt expect too much of fleeting with them. They're a different alliance and prolly dont care for anything else but our cash. Which means we should depend on ourselves for roams. For which recent experience has shown us that (as last year) participation is crap, plus we might just as well stay in Derelik and roam providence from there.
I just dont see the point in forcibly moving to 0.0 before the end of the month. Neither do I see the point in pooring 1,5B down the drain for 'trying'. That's about the same as buying a providence and leaving it hanging at a gate while you're at war - Fun for others but not so much for yourself.

Anyway, that's how I feel.


Re: the availability of moons, I dont know how much ppl/area -a- got, but they probably only have so much Hrods for so many POS-es. So unless you stumble upon a very lucrative moon, I wouldnt worry too much. Although I dont know much about moons, there must be some middle ground between very lucrative moons and utterly crap moons - moons that are good, but not so shiney that -A- will go through too much trouble.

[peo]

Mineral                 Per Unit   Monthly
Cadmium                    995          71 640 000
Caesium                   1050          75 600 000
Chromium                   2130         153 360 000
Cobalt                    809           58 248 000
Dysprosium                   9790         704 880 000
Hafnium                   1215           87 480 000
Mercury                   6749         485 928 000
Promethium            8880         639 360 000
Platinum                   2784         200 448 000
Neodymium                  37490       2 699 280 000
Scandium                   2226         160 272 000
Technetium                  75986       5 470 992 000
Thulium                   1387           99 864 000
Titanium                    738          53 136 000
Tungsten                    370          26 640 000
Vanadium                   4819       346 968 000

red=doesn't exist in tenerifis
orange=exists in limited quantities (below 0-4 reported)
green=decent moons existing in decent quantities in tenerifis 5+ of the 5% reported
pink=super goon existing in good quantities (14 of 5% reported)
(i've removed the gases as they are common everywhere)

So what exists are Scandium, cadmium and hafnium. Anything green and pink will be demanded by the
overlords.

1 large tower costs about 280m/month without jump costs.

[peo]

I understand what you mean by staying in derelik.
But who should we roam with?

[Mangala]

I think hrod was using provi as an example of roam/people likely to roam -a- space (since -a- have no control over the provifightclub now, it stands to reasons its locals may roam down, when they aint shooting themselves which the proviblock does like to do.

Obviously, Sin was crap in any sort of note taking/getting questions upfront from the other corps/getting people involved in the negotiations, so most of the info WE want, isnt really available as he didnt focus on it much, just on how much, and how many; As the info we have had literally just focused on bearing it up down there, which i think the 0.0 lobby Sin is working on behalf off was wanting to do, rather than anything actually productive.

Edit: I feel he rushed on this due to having an idea his corp wouldnt last/survive it not happening, which he extrapolated out to BC as a while.  Not having the forum (no idea if its still there as I havent been able to remember either of my logins anyway) to ask questions/pose them for him to ask/give advice on what is best for renters to find, really hasnt helped anyone bar those who Sin is seeking to appease with ratting space.

[Warcold]

I understand what you mean by staying in derelik.
But who should we roam with?

Well, that's part of my point really. If roaming with -A- turns out to be something we cant do (for whatever reason), what have we got left?
In that line of thought (and others prolly) renting is just not the way to go and MAADI's vision might need to be redirected to what Hrod's been looking into recently: joining another alliance.

[Mangala]

I thing that meeting went better than it would have had us MAADI(ish) folks not been there.

I did feel at times that Sin and magnus were trying to say so much to keep us shut up, but didnt really work. 

Long and short of it is, we are going, although maadi - just amongst ourselves - will assess this on a month by month basis, while looking at other options, one of which I will post seperatly on this week.

[Warcold]

I thing that meeting went better than it would have had us MAADI(ish) folks not been there.

I did feel at times that Sin and magnus were trying to say so much to keep us shut up, but didnt really work.

Yeah, I could easily pull out a social psychology book out of the bookcase and point out a thing or two that is going wrong in 'their' decision taking.
But as Jon said, it's only isk. (and Jon's isk on top of that )

[peo]

CTA called to place the ctu, 18:30 on friday.
I'm not going to be there as I'm going to my dads for the weekend.

[peo]

And then an idiot starts blabering about there being an incursion in the route...
When i answer I get the CSPA charge... Who in their right mind that isn't a complete noob has that on???

[Warcold]

I wonder how 'they' (we) intend to defend it. It wasnt discussed at all...
Would be nice if there were some watchamacallit deathspike/doomsday/whatever pos-es in the area beforehand.

*shrugs*