Author Topic: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements  (Read 5589 times)

Offline Bethor

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« on: August 10, 2011, 08:11:52 AM »
Terraria 50% today only:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/105600/

minecraft is better ;)

if you like big blocks with no bosses and no stories and that looks crap, yea mincraft is better.
If you like boss fights, coop play, slightly better graphics and more to find than Terraria is better

both have random generated worlds, but in mincraft you create a char for that specific world, and he stays there, world is huge, there are no ends.

Terraria has a limited size, but your char can be used in more than 1 world so you dont have to go building him and equiping him each time
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Offline Chug

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 09:47:40 AM »
can someone tell me why the hell I should be playing Minecraft (or teraria for that matter). Ive watched videos and it just looks like a load of crap outdated (1995 outdated) graphics and a really boring concept. What is the charm supposed to be to draw me in?

Offline Bethor

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 09:50:59 AM »
In both:
sandbox, random generated worlds, exploration, addictive gameplay, easy to get into, cheap as dirt, regular updates.

Its not "scripted" (as a generic shooter) and every game will be different. There is no real ending, and because its updated regularly it stays fun and challenging.
Also due to its simplicity its a great game to spend that half hour you have and when you don't know what the hell to do, without getting stuck into something. 
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Offline Mangala

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 09:57:16 AM »
can someone tell me why the hell I should be playing Minecraft (or teraria for that matter). Ive watched videos and it just looks like a load of crap outdated (1995 outdated) graphics and a really boring concept. What is the charm supposed to be to draw me in?

Dont ever look at Dwarf Fortress then :)

Graphics and a plot dont make a game interesting, its what YOU can do in that game that makes a game interesting (IMHO).
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Chug

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 10:29:29 AM »
hmm hardcore gamers always say that  :P I like massive plots, story and amazing visuals equally as much as gameplay. When all done well together they just make the experence immense. Suppose the Metal Gear Solid series is a good one to go off. Not many proper gamers are into it, but personally I think it's the best game franchise ever created

Offline Bethor

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 11:00:24 AM »
hmm hardcore gamers always say that  :P I like massive plots, story and amazing visuals equally as much as gameplay. When all done well together they just make the experence immense. Suppose the Metal Gear Solid series is a good one to go off. Not many proper gamers are into it, but personally I think it's the best game franchise ever created
Its like a roller coaster, you enjoy it once, maybe twice but than the fun is gone. because scripted event of soldier x walking 2 rounds and taking exactely 1.04 minutes wont change. Sure if you set off an alarm he goes rushing and than turns it off and walks back. I dont know metal gear solid, just by name and from seeing it way back in 1994 or something. So dont take this as an attack on MGS as i just cant say if its like the rest :D

DF, Terraria, Mine craft can be played indefinitely, nothing is ever the same. In DF reloading a save of half a game year back might put you in a completely different spot. Also i like to envision what it looks like in my head. Also especially DF has a lot of things that are in game, great fun, but not designed (for instance, lava lifts and dwarf eating carps, elephants from hell working together with the gobblins to kill the dwarfs)

For that same reason i like the 1st elder scrolls game, and darkfall (anyway the 2nd) it just had complete randomness, you could mix and match yourself. Quests were random. But i like the fact that i cannot predict what is going to be next, i'll make the story myself (especially DF lends itself especially good for that. I once had a fortress with a blind expert crossbow dwarf... but that's a story for some other time)

Also games like Mount&blade and Mount&blade:warband you are director of the story, you decide. not some standard script, but the random variables.

But of course you are free to have your fancy graphics, and i will enjoy a good looking game (like dragon age origins) but i play through it once, say 40 hours, and than im done.

Anyway im passionate about sandbox games/indy games

AAA for me has seldom delivered what it promised.
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Offline Mangala

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Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 11:15:33 AM »
hmm hardcore gamers always say that  :P I like massive plots, story and amazing visuals equally as much as gameplay. When all done well together they just make the experence immense. Suppose the Metal Gear Solid series is a good one to go off. Not many proper gamers are into it, but personally I think it's the best game franchise ever created

Dont get me wrong, I too like massive plots - but I still like the ability within those plots to go your own way, to accomplish the game in a way not totally inline with how the majority would do it, or even the Devs themselves really planned for.

Visuals arent a big thing for me. Its why after a decade I still like Deus Ex, and after even longer really love the AVP series and so on.

But stop derailing the Deals thread chaps :)
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Caradir

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 11:33:44 AM »
SO im going to give Dwarf fortress another try i did like it i just wanted it to look better so advise me :)
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." Josiah Stamp (Governor Bank of England 1928-41)

Offline Chug

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 11:46:22 AM »
But even though its unscripted, sandbox etc etc. It's still the same game. Same IP, same controls, same AI etc etc. the only true sandbox game is real life, and we all know how underrated that is :p

I'd much rather play a more linear game which compeltley immerses me from start to finish, and leaves me actually feeling i was part of the game, and even a little sad that it is over. Almost like youve finished a chapter in life, despite it only being a 20 hr story driven game. having said that, replayability is still important, which is why i like my MMOs. And as for Sandbox, EVE has a nice blend of all the above.

Offline Bethor

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 12:29:58 PM »
SO im going to give Dwarf fortress another try i did like it i just wanted it to look better so advise me :)

get dwarf lazy pack http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59026.0 (think this is the current version)
gets you DF, tile sets, and tools like dwarf therapist
Not sure if it contains stone sense, but you'll want that also as it is the "nice"  isometric view. (hell of a lot better than ascii)
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LONE STARR:  What's that make us?

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Offline Bethor

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 12:43:34 PM »
But even though its unscripted, sandbox etc etc. It's still the same game. Same IP, same controls, same AI etc etc. the only true sandbox game is real life, and we all know how underrated that is :p
Ok i'll go that far with you, but no difference for the 100% scripted roller coaster shooter.

I'd much rather play a more linear game which compeltley immerses me from start to finish, and leaves me actually feeling i was part of the game, and even a little sad that it is over. Almost like youve finished a chapter in life, despite it only being a 20 hr story driven game. having said that, replayability is still important, which is why i like my MMOs. And as for Sandbox, EVE has a nice blend of all the above.
The immersing i can agree with. However its the story someone else thought up, you get to play it, much like watching a movie or reading a book.

Taking DF as that is the most complete sandbox game i know of. It is all random. A random world is generated. You can set up a few things but it is random for all intents and purposes. With exactly the same parameters a different world can be generated. (sensitive dependency on initial conditions :) )
all events are also generated in game, in case you are connected to the dwarfs they will send a carvan. But what it will carry is random. The dwarfs that come to your fort, random, the names of the dwarfs, proffesions etc etc random

The events, you are attacked by goblins year 1 month 4 reload start year 1, and now not attacked, reload again, attacked in month 5, group consists of X etc etc.

But after seeing the little idiot walking around and doing stuff you tend to see a certain pattern, based on the random parameters he has, you can follow him and see what he is up to, or not. But if you do you can imagine the story behind him. he has relationships that can happen, grudges, he can get sick all based on randomness and the initial stats he got. and the 1st time he might do it, the 2nd he might not. It is hard to predict what will happen, and thats making it fun (for me)

As for MMO's i agree on the eve part, however, look at WoW, i played that, and focusing on pve. It consists of me and my friends leveling to lvl 40 at that time, than going to boss x. and fight him. every time we fought the boss we needed to use the exact same tactic. Its not as if the boss acted differently or started fighting as boss Y so you dont know what to expect. Its exactely the same. The drops however are random (to a certain degree)
WoW was in my mind only fun because of the players. As for SWTOR, i still fear very much it will be a singleplayer game where i pay for every month after i initially buy it. At least to get the immersion. The killing of boss X i'll believe.




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former roommate.

LONE STARR:  What's that make us?

LORD HELMET:  Absolutely nothing. Which is what you are
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Offline Bethor

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 01:10:44 PM »
extra added screenshot of DF with lazy pack :)

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Offline Chug

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 01:18:05 PM »
I completely agree with WoW, and other 'theme park' MMO's. It is still linear to an extent, especially when it comes to raid bosses. But it's the way you approach the boss which changes that. In Wrath, my guild spent weeks and weeks and weeks trying to down heroic Singragosa in ICC 25. Even though the abilities/tactics were scripted, 25 very knowledgable hardcore raiders still couldnt take her down. The charm was definitely seeing that changing 1 thing in your own game changed the fight, and brought the boss closer and closer to the end. When you look at games, no matter how 'sandbox' they are, they are still the same. DF is still DF. The only thing you can truly change in a game is the way you play it. Otherwise we'd all be game developers and make our own :p

i think ive just blown a fuse in my own brain typing that.

Offline Mangala

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 01:35:24 PM »
Yorkshireman in realising games are games nonshocker :D
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Bethor

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Re: Sandbox v Not Sandbox and other gamer arguements
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 01:39:40 PM »
in the essence game X will always be game X and not be game Y because its game X and not game Y :)

concerning your raid, i personally just played up to and including TBC and never did TBC endgame. As for the bossfight. once you found out how to down the boss, the trick was learned, and you could down in indefinitely with that group (in theory) because nothing changed about the boss anymore, it was static/scripted.

Using DF as sandbox example. It isn't scripted. Legendary monster X can enter you fortress, or he can be dead. A personal history of every important character/monster is created. Everything has a history tracing back to the time the world was generated. This is all unique. In that specific world that actually happened. all those chance events led to the world you are playing in at that time to make it the way it is. like i said, sensitive dependence on initial condition :D
LORD HELMET:  I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's
former roommate.

LONE STARR:  What's that make us?

LORD HELMET:  Absolutely nothing. Which is what you are
about to become. Prepare to die.