On a more serious note

[Goatboy]

Hi,

An unusually serious and longish post this one. So if that's not your thing, hit that back button.

I do realize that this forum may not be the best place for stuff like this. But HoJ consists of lots of different people with all sorts of life experiences, and thanks to Mang has been an online home for me and many others to warm their hooves. 

I'd like your opinion, feedback. Negative or positive, all is fine. I hope to get some insights, even if just from writing it all down.
I have to give a somewhat elaborate intro so you can get into my train of thought for a little bit.

Sorry for the lack of headings. Maybe I'm just using this as a notepad for myself that I'll actually come back to, instead of not reading it again.


---

I'm male, 28 years old. Morbidly obese with 147,5kg at 1.78cm. Used to be taller, spine went meh. Always have been overweight. Fat baby, toddler, teen, etc. As a result my self confidence and worth have been shot to shit. During my years at university I went into a depression. Constant stream of suicidal thoughts. No real attempts. Felt like I couldn't do that to my parents. And was probably too scared. Did enjoy myself with a stanley knife though. Nifty collection of scars on my whole left arm.

I live in a 70m2 apartment that I 'bought' in 2007, just before the market went tits up. My mortgage is way higher than the value of the property.
I live there with my girlfriend (almost 5 years) and her sister has been renting the 2nd bedroom for well over a year now. We had the sister's best friend stay over for a few months as well, she crashed in the living room. Mind you, all three are of the sista variety, so things get/got loud sometimes.

Before and after I got my degree as a translator in 2006 I worked in the UK for a total of 13 months. First job and I had a falling out with the director. I decided I could not work for someone who wanted to be able to lie to my face and expected my to swallow it. Traineeship/job duration: 13 months.

Moved back to freaky deaky Dutchyland early 2007. Got a job in the gf's town and worked there for 2 years. I was good at what I did and really developed  my skillset (website editor/management). I was the go to guy for anything related to the website or online marketing. In that period of time, I gained 25kg because I tried to deal with work stress by stuffing my face. Got fed up with the corporate bullshit determining the company's course. Discovered I had values (yay!) and I thought you should treat customers right. I decided to move on. Job duration: 2 years.

So I applied for a job managing a pet website. Very informative, helping pet owners with advice. Kewl! All was well for 3 months. Then my employer decided he didn't want to continue that project anymore. Next 3 months were really crap. Project manager went on preggo leave. Colleague got sacked. And my contract wouldn't be renewed either after 6 months. Rent was cancelled. So for the last two months it was virtually me keeping up appearances, doing pointless work. Me no likey. Job duration: 6 months.

That employer really needed people with my skillset, but didn't want to offer me a new contract elsewhere because they wanted to decide on an online strategy first. Another company continued the pet site. They gave the other colleague a job. They didn't want me. This is where things went downhill I think. My professional skills have been my source of pride. It was something I was good at. Something I took pride in. It was a great part of who I was.

Meanwhile I had not only been developing in the area of online marketing, but also in the make money online market. Whether it be a web store, an information product, a forum, as an affiliate, etc. So I got a job at Victim Support as a webmaster, four days a week. One day for myself to excercise and work on my own websites. By this time I had some pocket money coming in from websites on autopilot after putting some effort in for a few days. Sadly, my job only existed on paper and in day to day activities I was just wasting my time there. So after talking to my manager we decided to scratch my position and find them someone that actually matched their real needs. Job duration: 11 months.

During this year (2010) I got into personal development. I sold the websites that brought in the pocket money to start anew with a clean desk and targeted plan.

At this time I randomly found a recent LinkedIn message from an old colleague at the company that participated in the pet website. They were merging various publishing companies. Neat new location. All sounded awesome. So I started there January 2011 for 5 days a week. Lots of talking, planning, etc. The dude was awesome. Great to work with. But as I learned more about the company, I found that it was an oil tanker that could only change course one degree at a time. That and mixing together people from five different publishing companies led to some organisational challenges. All in all, I didn't feel at home.

What's important is that in april 2011 I attended a three day seminar in the personal development space. Had to get up at 05:00am to get there in time, couldn't afford a hotel. Got home and went to bed at 01:00am. Seminar lasted from 9:00 - 21:00. It was an awesome experience. I went through a great range of emotions and activities. After three really long days and two very short nights, I came home after twelve with more energy I had ever had. That was a very strong signal to me that I was not doing what I was supposed to be doing on a normal work day. On work days I got home exhausted and tired. Even though it was a desk job.

So I talked to my awesome manager dude. And he understood the way I felt completely. He'd had one of those experiences himself during a 5 day training/activity. But he didn't really do anything with it after that. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to take action. So I told them I thought we should find a replacement for me. They suggest I'd stay on for 3 days a week. They repeatedly expressed their appreciation of me working there, but I told them I could not see my own value there. I was fucking off most of the time. I didn't do much. Plenty of opportunities to apply my skills, but I just couldn't get myself to do it. Talk to colleagues. Introduce myself. Etc. But we tried the 3 days a week thing. And that just made me realize how much happier I was the other 4 days of the week.

So in July we decided that August would be my last month. They were hiring great new online minded people to do the work I was supposed to be doing all year. And I would take a plunge with my own small business. Helping other small business acquire new customers and improve sales online. I had no financial reserves. So it was sink or swim.

I sank. Hard. At this point the gf didn't know a thing. I was feeling distanced from her and quite frankly ready to let go had she responded negatively to my decision. That's also why I didn't tell her. He'd just be negative. She has two university degrees and has her own issues with getting a job at her level, so she's working at a storehouse. She doesn't have any big goals. Doesn't strive to achieve much. I was a bit out of sink with her after spending a lot of time plowing through personal development materials. I was on a bit of a high.

So yeah. September came. No job. No savings. I had traded my sweet i7 pc for a two laptops. One for me and one to replace the gf's that had broken. I was hiding in the public library (free WIFI ftw) so the gf would think I still had a job. And I could barely get myself to type anything, do anything.

At some point I sent an email to my LinkedIn contacts. I had created several offers, ranging from online marketing consultancy to small website design. All priced very, very sweet. So after spending a few weeks in the foetal position and no real jobs from my 'big' promotional mailing I finally broke down and during a serious talk with my gf I told her about the job thing. She felt sorry that I thought I couldn't tell her. And I was sorry for simply being a douche.

After this point, we actually grew closer again. Had a few serious talks and I understood her more. I discovered that I hadn't really involved her in our household finances much at all. So she had no idea what had been going on. Quite frankly, my bank account hasn't been out of the red ever since I bought the appartment in 2007. And now I actually *want* to spend time with the gf, rather than mess about behind my pc and waste time online watching the latest memes unfold.

The gf was very understanding. She didn't realy flip out, because she could see how bad I was feeling at the time. And still am really. I was/am severely miserable and simply the thought of going to any office and picking up my old line of work (online marketing/website management) can actually make me feel nauseous. So she gave me some time to work on my shit.

Not surprisingly, I didn't make it happen. Spent a lot of time pondering. Thinking. Sleeping. Doing the dishes. Laundry. Everything but actually lay the foundation for my own tiny business. So I went to work in a storehouse as well. It was awesome. Voice picking orders. Walk around all day, quite independent work. I rather enjoyed it. I was calm. Felt at ease. It was very beneficial. But my ankle started hurting so severely that after coming home after work, I could barely walk anymore for that day after I had sat down for a bit. So after a month of working in the storehouse, I decided to stop. Even though it brought a drop of money in, that wasn't worth ruining my ankle for.

So there I went again. Firmly decided that I'd make it happen. And I did not. 

And here we are. Almost 4 months after my last day at the office in August. My ankle still acts up after things like going to town for shopping. So physical work where I have to be up and about all the time isn't an option. Going back to my old line of work in an office environment just won't fly in my mind. I won't function, just like I didn't earlier this year. All their bullshit targets and focusing on the wrong KPI's. Having to defend your own advice that colleagues ask for. I can't do that anymore. Maybe that sounds sad. I don't know.

I haven't gotten a professional opinion, but looking back at the past four years, I feel confident that I slowly dropped into a burnout type situation. If that's something you can't relate to, that's OK. You won't be able to if that type of thing hasn't happened to you. As with the depression and suicidal stuff, you need to have been there to really get that type of thing.

As you'd image after 4 months of not really working, money is tight. Built up a few k in debt and I'm surprised I have't seen a bill collector yet. We've been juggling a few bills and that house of cards will collapse after this month. I'm writing up a new financial statement as we speak to get a hold on things. Even though I made good money with my jobs, I never managed it well. That's something I'm really working on.

On a personal level, I've been much closer with the gf. And I've been happier. Calmer. Now my biggest challenge is the financial situation and that's causing a nice deal of stress.

Personally, I'd love to see it all go tits up. Get rid of the apartment. Rent a small studio. Gf can work a few days a week, I can work a few days a week and we'll get by. Sadly, the gf isn't really into that.

---

So much for the intro. 

I guess at the core of it all, I'm very frustrated.
With how the world works. How corrupt and stupid everything around me is.
How they can give Greece a bajillion monies that don't exist and then scratch half of the debt. Just like that. Poof.

I do struggle with life a bit. The point of it all, etc. I'm planning on visiting a psychologist again asap to bother him with this type of stuff. 
People around me say I'm having a really early midlife crisis. That most people have this phase at some point and 'fix' it by having kids and moving on.

A feeling I've had for a while now, is that I just want to go away. Retreat in a small cottage in the UK. Or preferably a small house in the hills in Spain with a little pool. And just be left alone and spend time with my gf.

As for my own small business. I'm even doubting that. I'm really close to launching my own online website product. Helping small business owners to set up their site and then train them in online marketing. The market is there. I know several people that are easily making a good living out of that market, teaching  their clients shit stuff. I know I can do better. But I'm not doing it. And it doesn't even have to be better. I just need to take action and let people know I exist.

Thing is, I can get anyone else going online really fast. Analyze their business. Tell them what to do. Help them do it. No problem. But as soon as the time comes to do something for myself and in any way let people know that I can help them, I completely shut down. And right about now, I'm actually losing faith in my ability to help others as well.

I need to somehow learn to not give a damn about certain things. Something I've always sucked at in office jobs. I always care too much about what goes on. About my work. About myself in that company, etc. I can't seem to not care. I also spend far too much time thinking.

After all this rambling, which admittedly is really for me to read again in the morning and feel really silly so I can get my ass to work... I guess I have the odd actual question or two...

- Can anyone recognise this type of feeling/situation and offer any advice on how to snap the fuck out of it? I WANT to get cracking.

But I cannot get myself to DO anything that will help myself. It's hard to describe how frustrating it is to switch between overconfident and lacking any and all motivation multiple times a day.

- Can anyone think of a few types of work that aren't desk jobs, but aren't full tilt running around all day either? The storehouse work was alright. I used to do it during summer holidays. But I was younger and lighter back then. Ankly won't cooperate atm.

I've been planning to exercise more for a long, long time. Just an hour walk. A swim. I like it. I just don't DO it. (see the pattern?). So I'll at least start tomorrow off with that. Take an hour walk. Try and clear my mind and get to work.

I know far too fucking much. I've cut back on my information intake in all sorts of areas. I need to get myself to take action.
Even just now I get an email saying 'Grats, you made another xx euro' from an online information ebook I sell together with a trainer. I'm surrounded by evidence that what I know and can do works. Surrounded by people that believe in my skillset and in me as a person. But somehow I can't seem to join them. And I've found that is the most important thing. If you don't believe in your own capabilites, it doesn't matter who does. 

It's the same for being healthier. I know what I should and should not do. I've had success with a certain lifestyle that I enjoyed. But I keep falling back into a pattern called Feel bad? Stuff yo face!. So frustrating. I know I'm much happier when I eat a certain way and exercise a bit. But I cannot get myself to do it. I have one or two people that coach me and I'm very happy they support me. But that doesn't seem to do it for me.

If you have any advice, it's most welcome. If not, I'll come back and read this crap tomorrow and hopefully I'll see how ridiculous I've been for the past while.  I'm really looking for a way to somehow flip a switch. Stop thinking. Park all my self doubt. And just fucking do something for myself. And for reasons I can't put my finger on, I cannot get myself there.

Sorry if it all seems random. I'm sure I missed an important tidbit here and there.

If this all just confirms to you that I'm batshit crazy, that's alright. 

/sigh

[universal_kalle]

I hear ya. Been struggling with depression for as long as I can remember. Don't really know what it feels like to be dandy.
It's very tough to clean up ones own act. It seems impossible. The best help I've found are friends that can push me. A few years back I got a 50% sickleave from work (in Sweden that means you only work 50% but still get payd for 80%) and that gave me time to work on my shit. I started working out and that gave me lots and lots of energy. It also increases endorphins and other chemicals in your body making you feel better. I can really feel the difference when I'm not able to train for a while (like the last couple of weeks) and when I have a regular routine. Routines is another great tool. Set up a schedule for yourself.
Go to bed at decent hours so that you don't sleep through the entire day.
Go for a walk every day (I'd say at LEAST 1 hour, but recommend more) and the rougher the weather is the better.
If you can scrounge up the money for a gym do that as well, "pumping iron" feels great and gives better results, and faster, than going for walks. Not to devalue walks as they're great!
Get at least two cats (since you've got a girlfriend you can probably skip that step..).
Try to eat real dinners and lunches every day. I'm talking cooking here! Find new recipes and experiment with that on your free time.
Designate time for playing and if you're having problems not being able to keep to those get a friend/family member to put parental control on your account (SWTOR don't have this so just have a friend change the password each day, I'll be doing this).
Find a good author whose books you can enjoy (I HIGHLY recommend Kurt Vonnegut Jr. as he's simply brilliant. Very funny and easily read books but with a depth I haven't experienced elsewhere).
With book in hand go out to a café and spend the entire day reading there, no need to spend much money though, stick with a glass of water when you're thirsty and maybe a sandwich when you get hungry.

Most important thing to remember. Do NOT fracking give up just 'cause you ain't getting the results you want the first day or week. This shit takes time.


About jobs.. I havn't got the slightest idea. Don't really know what you've got down there to begin with. But as an example. My classmate will be quitting school to work for his dad a few months driving around the country marking model homes. I didn't fully understand what he was going to do so I'm having a hard time explaining it. But he's basically just going to drive around filling in forms and taking pictures. Not a desk-job nor a postman running his knees, back, ankles and shoulders into the ground.

I hope some of this helps.

[Warcold]

story long, me tired, will finish tomorrow.

[Taith]

That early mid-life crisis thing, I know a few guys who hit a trough at 28, myself included. I wrote a novel that was, in hindsight, me figuring out a few things about the world you happen to mention in your post, changed as much of my life as I could and when that wasn't enough, picked up sticks and moved to the other side of the world.

I have a friend here in London who has serious clinical depression. Smart girl, generous nature. I've watched her build herself up to a normal life of sorts several times over the years, only to have something go wrong and collapse down to living at home, unable to leave her bedroom to do her washing. I have no true idea what it's like to live with that kind of monkey on your back.

[Caradir]

Firstly Goatey me boy you are batshit crazy

but not  more so than any of the rest of us

I myself have suffered depression/anxiety for most of my adult life and im a wee bit older than you

Took me time but what ive learned is that as Kalle says exercise and diet are very important, dont deny yourself anything but limit the high fat sugary stuff and youll see a difference. Limit alcohol intake or completely do without. My first 5 years ill were spent "self medicating" with booze and lots of sex, sounds fun but not when your doing them for the wrong reasons.

Get outside as much as you can, my anxiety turned into Agoraphobia for a while, 2 years without leaving the house wasnt fun. Just going for a walk somewhere quiet makes an amazing difference to a day. I took up photography and although ill probably never show others my pictures it helps me relax.

Sleep is what i noticed makes the largest impact, i dont just mean sleeping 12 hours a day, i mean a decent night times restful sleep. Getting that was  very difficult to begin with but now i found things that work for me, basically a routine to relax and quiet that brain down so i can rest at night. What that is for you only you can find out through trial and error. At my worst i would go for 5 days straight no sleep, that was trippy.

Another very important thing is to not bottle up those emotions, let those fuckers out. Sometimes just voicing them loudly to another human being lets you realise how silly they sound and as such stops you going over and over and over them in your head constantly worrying and beating yourself up.

Also if you need to go on medication do so. Dont let others ignorance stop you form doing what needs to be done. The meds arent a cure, they kind of make your brain turn 90 degress in your head and everything seems weird, but they make situations easier to deal with until you find the strength to cope. DO NOT EVER LISTEN TO ANY FUCKER THAT TELLS YOU TO "PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER" . Its just not that simple.

What i gained from being ill was self reflection i couldnt have ever achieved any other way. I learned some things i didnt like about myself and others that i had been hiding away. I learned that some of the people in my life were nothing more than parasites, they got the boot out of my orbit. I realised i was jumping from one failed relationship to another merely for company and not because i actually cared about the other person, in fact i didnt care about myself so how could i care for anyone else?

With regards to work, i had my life going exactly as i thought i wanted it, Engineering degree, decent job, beautiful girlfriend and a flat. None of that made me happy, like you i lost my job (just stopped going) and hid it from my partner by sitting in the pub all day. Yet at home i still managed to be the "cheery guy" the one who organised parties amongst my friends, the "go to " guy for others problems. Eventually both lives crashed together quiet spectacularly and i had my first huge breakdown (got offered a stay in a mental health hospital).

After that things are a bit of a blur so cant recall to much info of 5-6 years. What i do know os after a few more failed relationships, many shitty jobs (selling PCS, delivering washing machines, call centres, stacking fucking shelves) i decided enough was enough i needed to do something to change all that shit. SO i did.

Cleaned up most of the loose ends in my life, cut ties on what i didnt need. I had no cash and nowhere to live yet i felt the happiest i had in a long long time. Finally sought proper help, heavy dosage of drugs, psychiatric visits, group therapy session (they really help when you lose the inhibition to speak). Stopped lying to others and if they couldnt cope with the truth or were ignorant fuckers they got put in the bin. Easily found that over the years 95% of the people that i had in my life i could live without, the ones i have left are all special people and understanding fuckers, true friends and not just fair weather ones.

I found that i enjoy helping others, so currently i volunteer between a few different charities, doing things ranging from helping at a country retreat (feeding Buddhist monks or children on an adventure break. Get festival tickets as a bonus for that one) also at a mental health charity (listening to others going through what i did). Just knowing someone understands helps immensely and i do understand what you are going through matey. It will get better, i cant say how long it will take you but it will.

Im still not in permanent work or making anywhere near as much cash as i used to, nor am i in a relationship nor looking. Yet i am the happiest i have ever been due to the fact i found what works for me and not what i thought i wanted. Currently retraining in N+ even though i probably dont want to do that whilst i decide whether to go do a degree ill enjoy rather than one i did to get cash.

Fuck thats turned out longer than i had planned

You are not alone, there are others out there going through exactly the same.
Dont hide away, let it out, even if that means tears and some anger.

Learn to not repeatedly beat yourself up
Learn to work within your current limitations and not lie to others about them.

Dont be swayed by ignorant peoples ill informed opinions.
Dont lie to yourself or those close to you. (if they are worthwhile they will help and try to understand)

Start grabbing those negative thoughts when you think them and challenge them, be objective and stop them controlling you. (takes time and much much practice but works when you manage it)

remember your monkey takes a lot of looking after so dont be carrying anyone elses monkey on your back. "Its no ma monkey"

THINGS WILL GET BETTER, YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

(if it seems vague its because i believe that to get through it we need to find that which works for "me" and what worked for me wont be the same as you need)

*huggles*

p.s. you are still a dick

[Warcold]

So yeah, most things that popped into my mind while reading the intro yesterday have already been said.

I'll go about it in a slightly different way, but will say much of the same things as above. Will still say it though. In my own Dutch and thus sometimes straightforward and blunt way.

Problem areas I see (roughly in order of appearance):
- physical health (weight)
- mental health (feelings of low self esteem, ruminating - possibly depression (I doubt it's burnout, but hard to tell from where i'm sitting))
- living conditions (1-2 extra ppl in the house that you didnt bargain for, in not so large living space)
- financial problems
- problems with work

The most important thing I think, is to keep things concrete, like Garry said. Ppl with tendencies towards depression tend to have abstract thoughts. Abstract thoughts are both hard to falcify and hard to remember. This usually means that negative feelings stick around and positive memories are forgotten or abstracted to oblivion. Be concrete, be objective. This will not only work for your negative thoughts, but also for finding out what you really want in work (and a combination of both - if working 3 days a week made you happier the other 4 days, why did you leave? really? and in concrete terms?). If you haven't already, use concrete tools to find out what you want and dont want in your work. Maybe use something like this: http://www.carrieretijger.nl/ik-wil/iets-anders. For your thoughts something like the g-schema might be something to help you with straightening things out a bit.

Finance: From personal experience, I know how much strain limited finances can put on your thoughts and feelings. Try to arrange a breather, so you can concentrate on getting out of the ditch more. Can your parents give you a loan? Someone else that is as close?
Don't be afraid to ask ppl for help in this (or the other areas discussed). I think you found out that ppl dont react as negatively as you thought - your gf didnt. Ppl like you. I know we do. Ppl are more inclined to help others than you might think. Only thing you need to do is ask. And if they say no, they won't talk for years and years about that guy asking that horrible question. They will forget in about a day/week or two.

Buddies: If you experience that you find it hard to put thoughts to action, maybe find someone that you make appointments with, make deadlines, help you actually get things done. You tell you've had ppl do that before. Have others help you set those first steps again. Don't think about how (like you say) it didnt have a long term effect. If it gets you into motion now, it gets you into motion now. First things first.

Excercise: Ppl above said it, you know it. Excercise is da bomb. Take something that's easy on your strained body - if walking for an hour or more hurts the ankle too much, try swimming, cycling.

Get professional help: First of all, go see your doctor. Don't know how you and he/she get along, but tell your story, see what can be done. Be it pills or talking, both take some time to kick in. Pills might be the cheaper solution, if money is an issue. Talking might help you tackle a wider range of issues. You can also choose to start with one and combine with other later on. See if you can get help from a dietician to help tackle the weight issue.

Living conditions: How does any limited privacy affect your recovery? Are there solutions / ways around any problems?



I might have forgotten stuff, but I think that between the others and me you got quite some pointers to work with. GL!

[universal_kalle]

http://www.carrieretijger.nl/ik-wil/iets-anders.

How about a courier job? By car.. If you've got a license. I had a workmate way way back that switched from being a postman (like me) to delivering packages by car and he loved it. Shouldn't put to much strain on your ankle and you get around to a lot of different places which at least I think is fun. I don't know what the economy looks like down there or how hard it is to find a job but at least with couriers it shouldn't be impossible to at least get a part-time gig.
Can't read Chinese ( :p ) so maybe that was what Warcold linked ^^

[Goatboy]

Thank you.

I'm very grateful for you taking the time to read my blabbering and sharing your own personal or professional experiences.

I've read through your comments a few times already and most likely will several more times.

There are a few things in there that I always tell other people as well, but have failed to apply to my own life.
And a few things that you sometimes need to hear from other people.

My main action plan for the moment to find my way towards feeling better is:
Eating normal and avoiding piles of crap. Especially when I'm not feeling all that amazing.
Exercise every day with walking and swimming. Especially when I feel I don't have the time.
Tackle and focus on handling one big To Do each day, instead of staring at an ever growing list of to do items and doing nothing.
Write down thoughts, questions and plans in my writing book, even if it's just to get it out of my head, to free some headspace.

There's a few other things to add, but I don't want to blow it up into a huge list again and feel like it's never going to work.

On one hand stuff like this can make you feel like a proper dick because there are billions of people that are a lot worse off than me.
On the other hand, simply snapping out of it because kids in Africa are dying of hunger just doesn't seem to work.

I've seen what meds can do to a person and find it quite scary. A friend of the gf had a baby and slid into PPD. I met her before and after the pregnancy and the difference was startling. Two years after she's still drugged up and never seems to be in the here and now anymore. I'll stick to the writing and talking for now.

I just sent my dad an email telling him what's going on and that I won't be visiting for Christmas and his birthday. Not because I hate them or anything. I just can't deal with their comments on my weight or anything else right now. That stuff bothers me for months after I visit. And I visit them less and less even though they only live two hours away. Sucky thing to tell them, took me a long time to write, but hopefully they'll get the message. I've been dreading going down to visit every day for the past couple of weeks. I'm grateful to them. They worked hard to support me and my sister. They still work hard. But they do need to fuck off in some areas and have a proper conversation with me instead of telling me I should lose weight and give me money when I leave.

[Caradir]

Yes there are many people worse off, however, i always  say its a very selfish illness. You spend so much time internally beating yourself up it doesnt matter whatever else is going on around you, and i know from when i was at my worst i didnt care anyway.

Those things you say your putting action on are all good, and its good to set goals.
However be reasonable and dont go beating yourself up if on that Tuesday you just couldnt do it. Accept that you have limitations and sometimes its ok to just do nothing and feel a bit shit.

If you get on better without meds (or it seems seeing someone else on them scares you) keep a diary about your experience , and, heres the hard part, always make sure that you have at least 1 positive from each day. No matter how minor it seems it gives you something to build from, youll probably start seeing things that truly make you happy and the things that really matter.

Again remember you are not alone matey boy, i dont judge you, im sure no one else on these boards does, if they do they are fuckwits anyway

[universal_kalle]

About meds. I can testify that they can really fuck you up. But they can also help. It varies from person to person. I was heavily medicated for years, your friend and I were pretty much alike. From the inside things just seemed foggy and grey and I didn't really react to things around me as I should've. This was both a blessing and a curse. Things that would've kept me from going to work didn't affect me as much. But at the same time things that would've made me happy didn't to the same extent as without meds. They evened out my emotional state.
There are lots of different kinds of meds and dosages. One might be kickass for some while not so much for others, and vice versa. It took me and my doctor some time to figure out what worked for me. Meds usually take 2-4 weeks before they have any effect so finding the right ones and a good dosage can be very frustrating. There are side-effects to just about all meds that can be pretty severe in the beginning but your body gets used to 'em and compensates after a while. My therapist talked about new meds coming out with much less side-effects, maybe they're here already.
About a year ago I felt I wanted to stop and talked it over with my doctor. We gradually lowered the dosage of one after another until I was drugsfree. During this time I also started exercising with a great personal trainer (cost fuckloads of money but it was so worth it!) and switched meds for physical training. It worked wonders! I got more energy, saw the world in full techno-colour again and started doing other things with the extra time I got from not being tired all the time. This is why I so highly recommend exercise.

I'm not trying to scare anyone away from meds. They worked for me. But it's not the answer to all problems. They can help you get over obstacles but at the same time they can become the obstacle. I'd recommend talking to a doctor or therapist about it and try it out if he/she thinks it can help you.

Also make sure you've got a safety-net of friends you can talk to. Mine are Spelmamma and Jargis

[Keggi]

mate 2 years ago i weighed 26 stone dont know what that is in kg's today i weigh 12 stone thats 14 stone lost in 2 years cant say it was easy and there is no magic wand to weight loss especially when you have a lot of it to lose.

my trigger to losing it was i lost my job and had a good heart to heart with myself i realized that i had no chance in the current climate of getting another job looking the way i did.

i went through all the self loathing and except to go to work prior to losing my job i didnt go out at all i was ashamed of my size.

you just have to know that it takes time and that you really want to do it my big downfalls were bread and the devils brew coca cola so i just cut those out and grilled and baked food instead of frying everything i was losing 4lbs(about 2kg i think) a week.

i started a diet every monday morning and was off it by monday lunch time just didnt have the will power but like i said something clicked inside me and i managed it.

so just keep trying you will manage it eventually

[Warcold]

Ah forgot to mention (but guess ppl touched on it already also): Divide goals in baby steps. Baby steps are always the way to go. And ofc make goals SMART. 

About meds: Anti-depressant drugs are no aspirin. It can be hard to get to dosage right, and yeah, one person will respond to this, the other to that, some to none. If you decide to go for meds, either make sure your physician knows what he is doing, or else look for a psychiatrist who does. But yeah, that raises the question: how will you know if a doctor knows his/her antidepressants?
As long as you have to come back for checks regularly, especially in the beginning, it's a good sign. But not more than that. Also, if you are going to loose weight, they should check stuff regularly too.
Then again, I'm a psychologist, so don't know that much about meds.
And you said you didnt want meds, so why am I bothering? 

[Goatboy]

Hello!

I wanted to give a 'quick' update for everyone who took the time to read my tale of woe above and even reply with heart warming advice and words. Because even though I may not have followed all of it, it was very helpful. So, thank you.

Don't recall if I mentioned it before, but I wrote my parents saying I wouldn't come over for Christmas and my dad's birthday. We've been talking mainly via email and my dad was devastated. They didn't realize I was so miserable. Eventually I accepted my dad's financial help and he lent me a considerable amount to kill off the cc debt. This made things a little brighter, although I was still very gloom and doom.

Other than that very little has changed until two weeks ago. There are three people in real life I meet up with on a regular basis who are aware of what I'm trying to work through at the moment. For some reason, I met up with them an/or talked with them all during the span of a few days. 

I met one for coffee in Amsterdam. Then went to join the other for dinner in said Amsterdam. And skyped with yet another the day after. Sharing what I had been doing, what was on my mind, etc.

Talking to people about it face to face was unexpectedly comforting. It helps. I also oddly noticed that this was the first time that a busy place like Amsterdam did not freak me out. And that I actually enjoyed being somewhat sociable over dinner with one of the guys and his partner at their home. I do edge towards being reclusive, so it was quite odd to enjoy this type of thing for a change.

Anyhooples, so that was at the start of the week. Before that time and the rest of the week, I was rather down. Couldn't get myself to do anything or take any type of action. I think it was also in the same week that I criss crossed through Amsterdam to find an oven to take home, to replace the one that broke on Christmas. I was on an oven mission. Resolved to have that fucker on our bulging kitchen counter top by the end of the day. And I did. The first real tiny thing I had accomplished in a while. I felt good.

Somewhere in the week I also had my closest experience to what can best be described as a panic attack. I couldn't take deep breaths anymore and I was making squealy puppy sounds when breathing out. Rather absurd, but still true. Later that week I was moping again and ended up talking to the gf late at night. It was obvious she was stressed out and unhappy. She still wanted me to just snap out of it. It had been long enough. But as some of you are aware, that doesn't simply happen. At a very pivotal point in that conversation, a pivoty pivot I will most likely remember for a good while, something snapped.

She softly said she was very mad at me. Not in an angry voice. Merely a very dissapointed, almost apolegetic one. And she gave me a soft tap/push on the arm when saying it. At that point my face went into the ugly 'I really need to cry but don't want to' mode. It had been in that mode several times before during the past months, but it never really happened.

She caught on. She repeated that same line two or three more times accompanied by the same soft push. And after the second one I cracked. I balled my eyes out. I don't know for how long. A relentless stream of tears and thick goopy snot covered both my boobs and her own fine specimens.

I made noises that would make an Ewok look up in bewilderment. Needless to say, a lot of cropped up shit came out. Through my nose. I can honestly say that I'd never experienced this before either. Sure, we all cry every now and then. But this was like moddable orange epicz compared to a grey broken lightsaber hilt.

Since then, about two weeks ago, I feel like a weight has been lifted off me. It's almost surreal. Not just the contrast before and after that moment. But the literal feeling of feeling less heavy and less burdened.

I spent a week playing swtor, which I have temporarily uninstalled. I still need to work on my procrastination and it was too big of a temptation. But I did write up our financial balance sheet, something I had been putting off for months. I found that things would be quite managable as soon as I'd bring in a few hundred euros one way or the other. And it felt good to finally have done something that took half an hour, but took me months to actually do.

Just before posting this, I rang a job agency and sent them an application for a temporary webmaster job. It's not something I want to do long term, but it's just in the next town and  the description was noticeably realistic. Instead of being like a 5 year old's Christmas wishlist, 5 jobs squashed into 1. So I gave it a go. If I don't like get selected or if I don't like the people or the company, that's fine as well. Even though it's in an office environment, I feel I can manage it because of the temporary aspect and the realistic, basic job requirements. The description seems very tangible. The type of work I did when I just started out and excelled at. Job agency rang back just now and told me which company it is and that they'll happily introduce me there.

I'm also still looking at jobs where I can do some mind numbing hands on work. Going to make a shortlist and apply for some of those as well after I hear from the job agency about the webmaster position. Should be this Tuesday.

On an entirely different note, I'm going to try and get some hands on experience in a bakery. Diving into the world of professionally made cakes and chocolates has always been on my list for a time when I wouldn't have to work or build a career. And I realised I don't have to wait.
I looked into getting a paid job as a trainee baker, but there's a lot of scepticism about my 28 years of age vs the typical 16 year old pimpleface they normally get. So after talking to a local baker for a good while, I decided I'm a) going to get a job to pay some bills b) get some hands on experience in a bakery to see if I enjoy it and build credibility and c) work on my own online projects in my spare time. Obviously I'll have to see if I can fit it all in my schedule without overloading myself, but I'm very conscious about that.

Still have a few less enjoyable phonecalls to make with companies to arrange a payment plan for bills that haven't paid until now. But monthly cashflow should be fine from now on, one way or the other.

I'll reinstall swtor right after I finish one or two important website jobs that I've been procrastinating on for far too long.

I'm also paying my first visit to the psychologist next week. Five week waiting list, unless you're about to jump off a tall building. So I think there are a few things we can work on that he can charge me for during 8 sessions.

I'll end the wall of text by saying thank you once more. I'm feeling better and slowly picking up the pace again.

Ok so I may or may not be reinstalling swtor as we speak. 

[Caradir]

good one matey

letting it out and sharing is always a good idea

and does reduce the likelihood of future snot encrusted conversations

[Warcold]

Welcome back to the bright side matey! Keep on truckin'!