Author Topic: Warden or Runekeeper?  (Read 2428 times)

Offline Mangala

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Warden or Runekeeper?
« on: November 25, 2008, 02:59:11 PM »
So I know I have 2 char slots, but Im actually going to go hunter with one of those :)

So what class do you think I should go with the other?  Whats the pro's and cons of each - for someone who doesnt play all the time and rarely groups (except usually with my buddy list).
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Jarkko

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 03:08:30 PM »
Here is a repost from another forum of my review on the Warden.



Warden


The Warden has a unique combat system in LOTRO. All other character-classes have the same system seen in [insert name of your favourite MMO]: You keep on auto-attacking, and in addition you can click skills to do some fancy stuff. Warden has the same combat system that was seen in Age of Conan during beta: The character has an autoattack, and you can do additional attacks, and by doing the attacks in a given order you unlock combo-moves (called Gambits for Warden in LOTRO). Notice that for release AoC combat system was dumbed down as some testers found this too hard to comprehend. Also notice that on LOTRO forums some people are already complaining that the Warden combat system is "difficult", despite the warning in character creation that it needs "advanced skill" to play (what ever that means; apparently being able to think further than 3 seconds requires advanced skill  :wacko: ). Personally I simply love the Wardens combat system :)

The Warden has just three melee attacks (and two ranged attacks). Not a lot of buttons to press. In addition the Warden has a Critical Strike (which becomes available after you succeed to stun or daze your opponent, and does a crap-load of damage if the strike crits (not that much in case you don't crit)) and a Gambit button. You can click the Gambit button at any time (and it clears away all built up combo moves), but if you don't have any built up combo, you'll do the skill called "Default Gambit". "Default Gambit" is the worst possible skill you can use (unless you need to clear the Gambit track).

The three skills you use are Spear (a thrust with spear that does decent damage), Shield (does some minimal damage and improves blocking for a while) and Fist (a taunt that does a small DoT and adds additional threat; even though it is called Fist it is actually a Shout and you can't use it if you are silenced).

Combining the skills you open up gambits you can unleash. For example you can do a spear - shield combo, which is called "The Boot"; you kick your target in the nuts doing some very good damage (not dependent on your weapon) and have a chance to Daze the target. Initially you'll be using The Boot *a lot*, as it is a fast gambit and has a chance to open up for Critical Strike (which basically kills the target if it crits).

If you don't use a Gambit but add on other skills, you can't revert back to it later. For example lets say you just used the skills  Spear and Shield and could now use "The Boot" gambit. Instead of clicking the Gambit you could now add a Fist, and a new combo opens up ("Power attack" in this case, which does a crap load of damage and adds a hefty DoT on the target). Usually it is a good thing to add more combo-moves, but not always, and you can't revert back (until at later levels when you learn to remove the last skill from the Gambit track for a small HoT to yourself).

The system is very good IMO. You have to know what you aim for before you start using first skill. Do you need to build up threat? Then start a Fist combo (for example Fist followd by Shield does a small DoT on all targets near you and adds a small HoT to you -> good way to grab initial aggro). Are you beaten by a lot of people? Start a Shield Combo (for example Shield and Shield opens up a Gambit which allows you to block every attack for a short duration). And so on. You don't have to have lightning fast reflexes, but you have to know what the heck you intend to get done.

Say for example in a group situation where you are the tank. Use Ambush (a ranged skill that does a crap load of damage but has a 1 minute cooler and 5 sec cast time), run in to group using Fist on the run (it has a medium range) and slam the main target with your shield, and use the Gambit thus opened up (Fist +  Shield hits all targets and gives you a small HoT). After that a double shied gambit (so that you don't die to all the attacks you now get) and then start building aggro on next target.

Or if you are DPSer in a group. Be careful not to use Fist Gambits, as you'll risk taking aggro from the main tank (and the tanks in LOTRO are just as pissed as in any other game when somebody is aggro-happy).


The role of Warden

The Warden can tank a bit. Not even close as well as a Guardian because medium armour is not that great if you need to stay alive, and while Wardens can build up a crap load of aggro, they don't have any direct taunt (so if you lose aggro, it is hard to get it back). Still, in a world where tanks are in shortage (name me one game where healers and/or tanks aren't in shortage) Wardens will find lots of opportunities to practise tanking.

The Warden can do ranged DPS a bit. Not even close as well as a Hunter, but still very decent, quite comparable to a Lore-master in my limited experience. So if needed, just stay back and keep on chucking javelins.

The Warden can do melee DPS a bit. Not even close to a champion, but still very decent, quite comparable to a Burglar. And if things go poo-poo, the Warden can off-tank quite well.

The Warden can heal himself a bit (useful while soloing or building up aggro in a group), but not others.

The Warden doesn't have nice party wide buffs like Captains or Minstrels.

The Warden doesn't have access to a plethora of debuffs like a Burglar, not to menion a Lore-master.

The Warden doesn't have any "oh-shit" buttons. Thus if you make a bad pull, you just have to fight it through. He doesn't have stuns or any half-decent AoE skills, and he for sure doesn't have any "Runaway!" skills.

Image 1

Shield and spear are what Wardens are about

Image 2

A boot in the nuts hurts and hampers movement of baddies...


Image 3

The Warden stands somewhere in Breeland, searching more clues on the mysterious fellow called "Sharkey" and his men


Image 4

The sun rises, and the hunt is over for tonight. The farmers and townsfolk can safely enter the fields for their tasks...


Image 5

...while the warden enters the Prancing Pony for some beer and break-fast




EDIT: Added the working links provided by Torgal :)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 06:26:53 PM by Jarkko »

Offline Keggi

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 03:30:27 PM »
the warden is a great class loving it, rune keeper a bit too much of a hybrid for me but can do a shit load of built up damage tho mine is only lvl 9.

made my warden a forester/woodworker made a shed load of cash selling heavy rowan and stout ash javelins and spears to other wardens. :)

Offline Caradir

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 03:42:40 PM »
Rune keepers are THE squishiest class (as they lack the CC capabilities of LMs) but when battle aligned they can pack a punch, or heal en par with minstrels (again) with the right alignment. Downside of them is switching alignments from battle to heal takes a while.

Wardens are fun still getting used to mine, tanking in medium armour is different (although they have a lot of self heal abilities and an in combat morale regen toggle)

and the gambit system is fun i.e use taunt and shield bash opens up the gambit warcry an aoe taunt self heal combo ;)
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." Josiah Stamp (Governor Bank of England 1928-41)

Offline Mangala

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 03:56:53 PM »
Epic Words

This and the possibly as epic words by Keggi & Caradir above have made my mind up. Warden it is.  Fits the way I play and to be honest, melee really does suit me in fantasy games rather than ranged stuff - excepting my BW in WAR :)
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Torgal

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 04:12:01 PM »
Fixed yer images, because they were broken. Not because I'm a pompous ass, but because it's better than the alternative (looking at the same horrifically broken code that I've been looking at all day).

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
Image 5
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 04:17:06 PM by Torgal »

Order Torgal / Allein / Iapetus / Mellir / Ganymede
Destruction Stikklebrix / Mimas

"Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit"

Offline Jarkko

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 06:24:09 PM »
Fixed yer images, because they were broken. Not because I'm a pompous ass, but because it's better than the alternative (looking at the same horrifically broken code that I've been looking at all day).

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
Image 5
Aaah, thanks. Forgot that HoJ forums hate the Imageshack thumbnails, and as it was a direct copy from my post at Paradox forums, I didn't even test them here   :-[
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 06:27:29 PM by Jarkko »

Offline Caradir

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 06:34:32 PM »
Quote
Not because I'm a pompous ass, but because   it's however better than the alternative

remember everything before the b (in but) is bullshit, or so i was once taught :) Customer Service skills FTW :)

only kidding ;)

yeah sometimes youve got to apply different code to get images working.


gahh my english language skills suck edited for clarification
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 06:37:00 PM by Caradir »
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." Josiah Stamp (Governor Bank of England 1928-41)

Offline Torgal

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Re: Warden or Runekeeper?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 08:48:00 AM »
Hah I wont deny that I am both pompous and an ass on occasion, but this wasn't one of them :D

Order Torgal / Allein / Iapetus / Mellir / Ganymede
Destruction Stikklebrix / Mimas

"Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit"