Author Topic: Warden: Tanking before level 41  (Read 1877 times)

Offline Jarkko

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Warden: Tanking before level 41
« on: May 04, 2009, 08:38:43 AM »
I would like some advice on how to tank properly as a Warden at low levels. Looking at the different guides on the net, most seem to focus on tanking at level 60, and there are several comments how it is hard to tank as a warden before level 41 (when the gambit Dance of War become available). Well, it doesn't help that much to know it is hard before 41, I would really like to know how to make it less hard :)


Anyway, I thought I'd write a bit of what I did yesterday, and would be delighted to recieve feedback. Towards the end of the instance run I felt it was quite possible to tank several targets, but it just takes a few seconds to build up the aggro, but to do that I had to forgo all the defensive gambits. The healing I recieved last night was absolutely great, and thus not using the various avoidance boosting gambits wasn't crucial, altough I do not know how Beo felt about seeing my warden take loads of damage :D

Anyway, during trash where there were at most one elite present I simply chucked the spear, ran in and did Goad (if the trait is slotted, like Tracer has it, it is an AoE taunt that does also applies a dot on 3 targets nearby) . That seemed to be ok, altough I wasn't able to hold aggro on the main target (I guess those RK skills deal a helluvalot of damage, as it was to them I always lost aggro :D), but after having frantically ran around a couple times and still wasn't able to grab aggro back before the mob died, I did let the target go after the RK :p  Instead after the AoE Goad I tried to hit as many mobs as possible with War Cry (a single target drain that also builds up aggro a bit; as it is a drain the healing recieved from it builds aggro on all opponents); I felt I held aggro firmly on several mobs after I got a few War Cries going. The only problem was that it takes a while to get several War Cries up and running.

Where there was more elites present, I opened up with Ambush (sometimes preceeded by Careful Step) + Critical Strike, then War Cry on the secondary targets. If either Ambush or Critical strike did crit, I did hold aggro well on the first target, if neither did crit I lost the aggro pretty soon (but then again, that mob usually died very fast anyway), and War Cry glued the secondary targets to me, with Keggis Warden usually holding firm aggro on the elite the DPS concentrated on. These fights felt less chaotic, and I actually had time to use Shield Up to make life even easier (gives a very nice block and evade boost) and Fierce Resolve (an instant AoE life-drain) to build up some more AoE threat. In all, I felt these fights went well, as Keggi held the target focused on, and I had time to build up nice aggro on the rest while hiding behind the shield.

On Bosses holding aggro was quite easy actually. That was mostly because people actually gave me a few seconds to build aggro :)  I did open up with Precise Blow to build instant aggro, then applied War Cry and Shields up. When there were adds spawning I tried to use Maddening Strikes to transfer aggro to me, but I didn't feel it was very effective; in the end Goad and War Cry did seem to do much better when grabbing the attention of adds. When I noticed the bosses were attempting some spell-casting, I tried to get off a Boot for interrupting, but usally either the Burglar had already interrupted or the boss had already done his thing, so I didn't actually care about interrupting towards the end.


I would be most pleased to recieve comments on how to improve my tanking, and especially if there were some glaring mistakes (yeah yeah, I know now one is not supposed to corner pull the Callers to the clothies ;) ). I noticed Jon's minstrel burning power like mad during some fights, so I guess he would have prefered to see me use some of the avoidance buffs, but when I tried those earlier in the instance, I didn't hold aggro on anything (so I had all those nifty buffs for nothing as nobody was interested in hitting me :( ), but I really do not know how I should do that *and* keep the aggro on all the mobs running around.

Offline Mangala

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 08:41:03 AM »
Quote
Beo felt about seeing my warden take loads of damage

Scared.  I havent really healed anything before in any game, so last night was a real test for me as much as it was for you tanking with your Warden.

As for my power issues - that was a combination of me doing everything at once from damage, to group heals to fear prevention and keeping you up when damage spiked on you - rather than blowing my load solely on you.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 08:42:51 AM by Mangala »
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Caradir

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 10:28:09 AM »
ive found on my warden that getting the initial agro is the tricky part but once i have it it doesnt go anywhere, any fist gambit really to gain agro i go for goad (fist,fist) as i have it specced for  +3 targets, i also have traited a +10% agro trait which i noticed you didnt but that made things easier. Once i have agro i generally go with my hots, shield up, Power blow (big dot) which i dont think youll have yet and fierce resolve is a life saver when fighting multiple mobs.
Also remember Mac is level 26 so his dps out is large. and yes RKs are slightly OPd at the mo id say ;)

As to Jons power issues, he was using his group heals a lot, burns power way to fast, most efficient minstrel healing is to use big heals exclusively better bang for your buck as it were, practice makes perfect with that. The more we do things as a group the more we "know" the other classes which we may not have any personal experience and the better to read situations.
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." Josiah Stamp (Governor Bank of England 1928-41)

Offline Jarkko

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 10:59:54 AM »
i also have traited a +10% agro trait which i noticed you didnt
Actually I have that "set" bonus from Way of the Fist. I have the Goad ("Know your enemy")  trait and Taunt ("Deadly Insults") trait slotted.

Offline Caradir

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 11:03:34 AM »
i also have traited a +10% agro trait which i noticed you didnt
Actually I have that "set" bonus from Way of the Fist. I have the Goad ("Know your enemy")  trait and Taunt ("Deadly Insults") trait slotted.

rofl thats prob awhat i was thinking about ;)
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." Josiah Stamp (Governor Bank of England 1928-41)

Offline Jarkko

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 07:19:38 AM »
I did join a PUG to help them retake Weathertop yesterday. Saw them looking for more people nearly for an hour, and as I happened to stroll in the area (killed orcs for the deed) I decided to join them.

I read in US LOTRO forums where one warden suggested that a warden should never open up in PUG with Ambush, as it would be sending out the message to the PUGgers that they can unleash hell immediatly.

I found that to be true. At first pull I did use Ambush, and half the party died. Ok, so we had just a level 19 captain as a healer (plus a level 20 champion, level 20 warden and a 23 hunter in the party in addition to me), but using Ambush gave the wrong signal. Incidently just me and the other warden survived when the others croaked, so the shield and self-heals are useful for something :D

Instead after that I started chucking javelins on the run (using autoattack shooting plus the two non-ambush javelin skills available at 24). It worked well. I was able to keep aggro very nicely (chucked the spears at different targets, and used Goad when I got in, then Fierce Resolve   followed by War Cries on as many targets as I could hit. I was suprised at how well I did hold aggro (it pays to be a bit higher level than the others, I guess :D).

In the end we croaked to the troll at top when the captain said to /f "We are not going to make it" and legged away. The rest stayed, but I was eventually grinded down, then the other warden, and then the champion and hunter died fast. I guess the captain ran all they way back out. The troll was below 20% health in the end, so it would have been nice if the captain had stayed around.

Thanking for the group I continued my journeys. Lesson learned: Javelin chucking seems to build up nice aggro (but the PUGgers don't know that, so they don't go all bananas with DPS after 0.2 seconds), and it is quite possible to AoE tank with Goad + Fierce Resolve when there is no healer stealing the aggro :D
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 11:06:47 AM by Jarkko »

Offline Caradir

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 10:42:57 AM »
Ambush is a bane in groups who dont know wardens, really get pissed with the number of times my ambush has almost finished when some over zealous git starts the fight ( not looking at Jon who is so used to tanking he takes the lead ;)  )  :S

and LMs please do not stun to start fight we need target dazed to use critical strike , but as you said javelin skills are nice for initial agro especially the level 38(?) one when that hits in the rear the mob knows hes been hit.
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." Josiah Stamp (Governor Bank of England 1928-41)

Offline Mangala

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Re: Warden: Tanking before level 41
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 03:23:46 PM »
( not looking at Jon who is so used to tanking he takes the lead ;)

On any character I play I invariably end up thinking like a tank ;)
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."