EVE Online Thread

[Mangala]

Sven, I'll buddy you and get you into my channel next time we are both on. Also feel free to ask questions here

Lelle, go on you know you want too try it again.

[Jarkko]

Could somebody please point me to a good article of the skill system (how do you learn them, what do they do, etc) in EVE? When I tried EVE the skill system felt weird to say the least. Correct me if I am wrong, but I can learn only one skill at a time, and I can keep on learning even when not actually playing? And is there any way to queue up the skills to be learned?

[Mangala]

Link to be provided when I go through my vast collection of EVE links. ( I end up doing this for all games, collect nearly 100 useful links... )

As for skills - to answer your questions:

How do you learn them? Buy a book from the market - usually the starter zone stations sell the majority of skill books. Once you buy it, right click and train it, assuming you meet its prerequisites. Ie Caldari Battleship has prereqs of knowing certain levels of Caldari Frigate & Caldari Cruiser first - about a weeks worth of training really. Skills train in real time, and dont pause when logged out, unless your trial or subscription isnt active.

what do they do? Skills make you able to do things in game, from fly ship classes, to shoot guns, or missiles, or Doomsdays (Must find that Tolon DD video...), melt minerals, create items in station factories, learn other skills faster, fit your ships better by improving your usage of a ships powergrid or making your usage of its shields or armor capabilities better, hell even skill books to control drones (and as you get further into EVE, maybe even fighters should you go the Capital ships route).

Correct me if I am wrong, but I can learn only one skill at a time: Yes. One skill at a time. For example you could learn "xxxx race" Frigate skill level 1, takes about 15minutes. Then switch to Small "xxxx type" guns level 4, takes about 10 hours. One thing, you can only train skills which you own, whether given as part of character creation, or purchased from the market (NPC sell orders, so no price gouging by unscrupulous trader types... )

and I can keep on learning even when not actually playing? Yes. Although the subscription or trial has to be active. It used to be you could ghost train, but not anymore. (Thats basically set a long skill train and deactivate your account)

And is there any way to queue up the skills to be learned? Not yet. The devs mentioned at Fanfest that they are looking at skill queuing, most likely based on their new certificates system. Which would be a boon to newer players, as the system does help with direction - pick a certificate, learn its skills. Under a queue system, it could be even better for new players to get into the game

[Warcold]

what i was wondering when i played it: is there a maximum to the ammount of skills you can learn?

[Mangala]

Gonna post a few handy links in this thread:

New Player info - written by a guy who was new at the time Great read. Does help alot of people.

Quickstart for newbies - again written by a player (Dont ask CCP about good documentation...)

Goonfleet's Wiki

Skills forum sticky - Check out the linked threads etc in there - very handy ones.

=======

EVE's golden rules:

* You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.

* In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from agression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too.

* Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec.

* Never grant corporation rights to stuff you can't afford to lose either. No exceptions.

* People offering free stuff ? Probably traps. Use caution.

* Free stuff usually isn't. Not even minerals you mine yourself.

* If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Paranoia pays off here. Double-check everything.

* Scamming and unethical behaviour some would consider griefing is not only allowed, it is encouraged and rewarded by the game mechanics.

* Harrasment or real-life threats however aren't, and you can get a shiny ban for them. Learn the difference.

* If you lose stuff, it's ALMOST ALWAYS YOUR FAULT. Really, only yours.

* More expensive stuff is not always better stuff.

* Slightly better stuff usually costs many times more as slightly worse stuff. Choose wisely.

* T2 is usually cheaper and better as best named, but harder to fit. Sometimes it's not better. Other times it's not cheaper. And occasionally, neither cheaper nor better.

* Showinfo and Variants->Compare are your best friends. Use it on all stuff you can.

* There is always heavy lag in Jita and other trade hubs. But then again, you almost always find what you might need there, and can get better prices for the stuff you want to sell fast. So, it might be worth the risk of getting stuck there. Just know you COULD get stuck there.

* Just HAVING ISK doesn't matter all that much, it's MAKING ISK that's important. If you BOUGHT your ISK (either "illegally" from some site, or from a valid GTC trade), expect to soon be parted with all of them.

* Total skillpoints count doesn't matter much either, it's level of relevant skills to the current situation that does. Yes, that does mean a 2 mil SP combat-oriented newbie could badly beat up a 60 mil SP industry-oriented veteran.

* ALWAYS check your clone before you undock.

* ALWAYS check your ship insurance before you undock. If it's a T2 ship however... not THAT important.

* There are no "solopwnmobiles" in EVE. Everything you can fly blows up if it's shot hard enough.

* All other things being equal (experience, skills), superior numbers more often win a fight rather than superior ship value. However, things are hardly ever equal.

* There is no such thing as "a fair fight" or "an unfair fight". There's only "a fight". Circumstances are irrelevant.

* Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

* Just because you CAN fly something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

* With enough skills and experience, ship size really doesn't matter all that much.

* If you logoff in space without a PvP timer, you're only safe after 2 minutes... and then only until you log back in. If you logoff with a PvP timer, it's at least 15 minutes. Bottom line, once a fight started, don't logoff. You'll only die anyway.

* If you PvP long enough, you WILL lose your ship. It's only a matter of where and when.

* Just because some character is just a few minutes old doesn't mean he's a newbie. Many people have alts. The reverse is also possible, people come back after very long breaks, and characters are sold. You could see year-old newbies around too.

* Skills that take less than 1 day to train are short skills. Over one week is long.

* You're in this game for the LONG HAUL. Don't expect to do something meaningful in the grand scheme of things in the first day of your first trial account ever.

[Mangala]

what i was wondering when i played it: is there a maximum to the ammount of skills you can learn?

No. All you need is time and ingame currency for skills and can learn anything you want. One guy - a very directed alt apparently has been training none stop for 5 years and has 115 million skill points, barely any in ship command though...

The only limit of sorts on skills, is the levels of them.  Skills are ranked & levelled.

The higher the level of a skill - up to level 5 - you wish to learn, the longer it takes.

The higher the skills rank, again the longer a level takes to train. Rank acts as a mulitiplier.

For example:

Diplomacy skill is a rank 1 skill. To train it to Level 4 will take me 1 day 10 hours.  To train Negotiation, a rank 2 skill to level 4 will take me 2 days 10 hours

Some rank 1 level 5 skills can take 7 days to train, other skils that are higher rank, have 30 day training times for their level 5 variants. Which are worth it. Also training times can be brought down by learning "learning" skills to level 4 or 5 in advance too. (Learner skills and their viability are oft argued over by eve players) As can implanting yourself with attribute boosting bio implants.

[Jarkko]

Heh, now I got even more confused with the skills

So, I don't necessarily have to train any skills at all, just buy them from a NPC vendor to learn the basics? Ie. training is only needed if you want to advance further in that skill?

As there is no queue system, and if I'd like to learn for example "Small 'xxxx type' guns level 4", I'd have to actively be learning each new level? Or could I directly start to learn level 4, log off and go to bed?

[Mangala]

So, I don't necessarily have to train any skills at all, just buy them from a NPC vendor to learn the basics? Ie. training is only needed if you want to advance further in that skill?

Basically yes. But better levels of a skill do make things easier - ship fittings, ship control, whatever the skills give (forgot to mention most skills have bonuses tied to levels, so the higher the skill level you have the better the skill performs. - oops0

As there is no queue system, and if I'd like to learn for example "Small 'xxxx type' guns level 4", I'd have to actively be learning each new level? Or could I directly start to learn level 4, log off and go to bed?

All i mean by "active" is subscribed, or still within your trial. So yes switch a skill on and log off and sleep, work whatever log on later and it could be finished, or you can switch to shorter skills that will finish while you play. Then switch back to the longer one when you shall be offline again.

[Warcold]

err, but of course you will need to learn level 1 (click, wait), 2 (click, wait) and 3 (click, wait) first...

[vacuum]

You train all skills.
Download 'evemon' and read the help docs on how to use it.

Basically it works like this.

1. Look at something you want to fly (e.g. Ishtar)
2. Look at the 'pre-requisites' tab
3. Look at all the skills you have - train them till they meet the minimum requirements
4. Look at the skill books you don't have and buy them
5. Train the skills you now have bought to the requirements

Rinse and repeat for the rest of your life.

Given this, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS
Also TRAIN CYBERNETICS 1, BORROW MONEY FROM ME AND BEOS AND BUY SOME IMPLANTS
Further WORK OUT YOUR PLAYSTYLE AND MINMAX EARLY (most skills have preferred attributes)

[vacuum]

err, but of course you will need to learn level 1 (click, wait), 2 (click, wait) and 3 (click, wait) first...

Right, this by the way means that planning is very important in EvE.
It's a rare mix of a tactical game (fleet combat, setup, etc) and a multi-layered strategy game.

[Jarkko]

err, but of course you will need to learn level 1 (click, wait), 2 (click, wait) and 3 (click, wait) first...

Right, this was actually what I wanted to know. So basically, a newbie has to be logged on all the time so that he can keep on clicking the new levels to be learned?

I don't mean a new player should get everything on a golden plate, but it does make me (still) feel EVE is not that suitable for casual players   Either you live and breath the game 24/7, or you don't


Well, have to read the links provided above, maybe they shed a bit more light on the strengths of the skill-system   There must be *some* good things in the system

[vacuum]

Right, this was actually what I wanted to know. So basically, a newbie has to be logged on all the time so that he can keep on clicking the new levels to be learned?

Was going to write an explanation, but this is quite good: http://www.eve-online-fan.co.uk/eve-skill-guide.php

However it's important to note that at newbie levels: 'III' of a skill takes about 3h and  'IV' of a skill usually takes a day or so to train. This is a good thing. Train a bunch of skills to II, then whilst you're doing DIY, or whatever, turn your sound up, walk away from the PC and whenever you hear the golden phrase Skill training completed - nip back and flip the next level III.

More importantly, during the week, train the IVs when you are at work . No other game that I know of allows you to advance your character's capability (but arguably not power) without having to grind XP - the downside is that you can optimise, but you can't short-cut.

[Warcold]

So basically, a newbie has to be logged on all the time so that he can keep on clicking the new levels to be learned?

To max out learning: yes. But do you want that?

And also as a newbie, you rather soon hit skills that take several hours to learn. So learn the 'short' skills when you're online, and the 'longer' skills before logging of.
If you want to max-ish: when you check your mail at breakfast before going to work, log into EVE, click a longer skill and log out, simple  
More casual: if you dont play much, concentrate on higher level skills, to make your off-time more effective.

But I wonder what the use of maxing skill learning is, because there are players around that have played the game for so much longer than you.
And I dont know why EVE wouldnt be suitable for casual gamers. Isnt the skill system comparable to games like WoW/WAR? If you dont play, you dont progress. In that way of thinking, EVE is suited to casual gamers more than WoW/WAR.

[Mangala]

But I wonder what the use of maxing skill learning is, because there are players around that have played the game for so much longer than you.

You can defeat, or aid in the defeat of a higher SP character from within a week or so. You can go up against a higher SP character with a lower SP character if you have the better set of skill points in your current ship class than they do in theirs. You can defeat a higher SP player if they have never fired or learned to fire a shot in anger and you have only just begun.

Skill points really decide what you fly and how well you make it work, rather than follow the lines of a Level 1 versus a level 80 in wow etc As long as you understand that you CAN defeat those higher SP players and understand HOW to do it, then you'll give it the best go possible.

The Goons understood this and well it worked very well for them. They even recruited on SA using it as a basis for their campaign: