Rules of Engagement?

[Rubino]

I can never remember the passive rules...

What happens when somebody tips your can and they go flashy red to you?
Can you attack them?
Can your corp?
Can their corp attack you if you decide to engage the flashy target?

[Mangala]

On canflip aggro:

First off, nobody can "steal" your can. What they CAN do (and is what canflippers do) is transfer ALL of your items in the can to a can of their own. That'll cause your can to self-destruct, leaving theirs in place. Since most people don't bother to "show info" on what is assumed to be "thrir" can, when you then open it you get flagged to the canflipper. he was already flagged to you, but most people again don't check to see if that's happened or not.

Which means if you take stuff back he can shoot you and so can people he is with (corp or gang is uncertain) however he is flashy first, so you can shoot him first (I fall down here on if his mates can then join in too...)

Also there is this:

What will happen is that you will be flagged to the person and their player corp for 15 minutes. If they fire on you, you can fire back at them for the next 15 minutes, so yes you can bait them with a disposable ship, then come back in something bigger.

Steal the loot out of their containers, and you'll open yourself up to a 15-minute aggression timer, during which the container's owner and his entire corporation are free to shoot at you. They rarely do, though, so it's ok. Keep a combat ship handy, because if they take a shot at you, whether or not they destroy you, you have a 15-minute span in which you can shoot back at the shooter. You might kill a nice ship that way.

[Rubino]

Ok cool.
You can open the can - but you only get flagged if you take the contents?

If they are flashy to you but you don't take the contents of the can - can you attack them and their corp can't jump in or does it become a free for all?

[Jarkko]

If you shoot for what ever reason (or no reason), the target and all of his/her corp can shoot you for the next 15 minutes. If the target is in a fleet, then the fleet members can shoot at you too wether or not they are in the same corp. Similarily after that any of your corp and/or fleet members can then shoot back at whoever shot back at you, etc etc.

[Caradir]

Theft
If a pilot picked up something from your jettisoned container, or a loot container dropped by an npc you killed, this also starts the 15 minute aggression timer. The container will have appeared yellow to the pilot at the time. If you are in a player corporation1, this also applies when the pilot takes something from containers of your corporation members. The pilot will have a special marking (blinking red background color by default, same as -5 security status outlaws). The pilot is flagged to you and all your player corporation members.

i.e. if your can is tipped, tipper is flagged to the whole corp and becomes a legal target for 15 mins. Allowing them to be attacked with impunity without you being criminally flagged.

So NO ONE except the tipper can reply to your defensive actions as they and they alone become a legal target, even if they are in a gang the other gang members CANNOT reply.

This does not apply to gang members.

i.e. Member A is in corp Y, Member B is in corp Z, Member B drops a can which is then tipped. Member B and all Members of corp Z may attack tipper but Member A and corp Y may not, as the theft was from a can owned by a member of corp Z.

Aiding a flagged pilot

If you provide any type of aid to a flagged pilot, you will receive the same flags for 15 minutes since the last act of aid. For example, if you aid a pilot at war, their enemies will be allowed to attack you. If you aid a criminal (illegal aggression or -5.0 security status), you are considered a criminal and their victims are allowed to fire at you as will CONCORD and sentry guns in the proper systems.

Shield transferring, remote repairing, remote sensor boosting, drone repairing, etc. are all forms of aiding. Basically any activity that 'heals' or 'improves' your target's ship are a form of aiding.

If the tipper does have help i.e. remote reppers they will become flagged also but they CANNOT open fire until a defensive aggression act has been taken against them. i.e. one of us fires at them, but once again only they can reply to this as they are the law breakers and we have a roght to reply to any act of aggression legally.



Hope this clears things up

[Rubino]

Thanks

That clears things up

[Jarkko]

Are you positive Caradir of your intepretation? It is my understanding you turn to flashing red when you shoot when you shoot at anything, and then any corp or gang members of the target can shoot back without CONCORD interference.

The second paragaph you quoted does not refer to shooting or thievery at all, but to helping somebody who is flashing red in a non-shooty way.

[Rubino]

It's unlikely that you'll be aiding somebody (by repping) who is flashy red to you.  Flashing Red means they're agressing you (you, your gang & corp) in some way.

There are 2 types of aggression from what I understand; Passive & Active.

Passive aggression would be theft.  Passive aggression won't trigger a concord reaction.
Active aggression is firing a weapon, tackling, etc - anything that may affect the attributes (sheild, armor, speed, warp) of a target ship (and also any cargo I think - ie jet.cans).  Active aggression will trigger a concord reaction in high-sec.  Not 100% sure about low-sec and concord doesn't exist in 0.0 sec. 

You'll turn flashing red to anybody you agress - and their corp/gang.

I'm not sure about what it exactly means but I think the sec-status of the system affects the level/speed of the concord response.  At 1.0 concord will respond quickly and with extreem force and as the sec-status goes down the level of response is slower/less powerful.

[Warcold]

Ok, so this is good. When we decide to shoot can thieves we can just kill the one player.

Because his corpmates will prolly armor rep him and such, they will start flashing red too. This will mean we must keep track of names, and communicate well, preferably over voice coms (faster) to focus on the one target. Once that one is down, we can ofc take on the others   

[Rubino]

 

Is the corp's Voice comms back?