Author Topic: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)  (Read 5018 times)

Offline Mangala

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"Never fly what you cant afford to lose"

Never a truer word has been spoken when it comes to that phrase and its place in the ethos of this game, and to enable us to roam further, for longer and without causing any of us financial pain on the isk front, I am implementing an internal ship program for all of us to benefit from. The program itself will cover two area's, Combat (PVP/Missions) and Industry - the former of which is the subject of this post.

The Combat (PVP/Missions) program will (I hope) enable you to join in pvp roams on a regular basis, as well as cover any losses we may have in missions without a huge concern as to the old pocketbook.

A new wallet division: Ship Program, has been established for these programs and a fighting fund will be deposited in it shortly.
A new mailing list in-game has been created: MAADI Ship. Please ensure you join it.

=====================================

Tech 1 Frigates + Fittings: FREE.  
Corp will gladly fund frigates for all members. BPO's/BPC's of frigates & equipment will be purchased if we do not already have them, so as to allow our builders to keep us in stock. Ideally I'd like to have at least 20 of each popular frigate variant on hand and 5 of each of the remaining ones. (Rifter, Kestrel, Merlin, Incursus, Griffin, Slasher, Vigil, Punisher, Condor, Tormentor, Maulus, Navitas, Tristan, Heron, Crucifier, Executioner, Magnate, ).

If you insure the ship, then lose it, then insurance should actually make you a profit as you havent had to pay anything beyond the small insurance fee :)


=====================================

T1 Destroyers: Tritanium Value Only
Basically pay us the value of the tritanium at the rate the corp purchases it from members and then feel free to take the ship. Please pay the funds into the Ship Program wallet with its reason being "Ship Name/Type" and drop a mail onto the MAADI Ship mailing list to say what you took, this will help in my basic administration of the program.

Coercer (175,193.57),
Catalyst (163,110.82),
Cormorant (123,111.65),
Thrasher (150,251.90).

If you insure the ship, then lose it, then insurance should actually make you a profit.

=====================================

T1 Cruisers: Tritanium Value Only
Basically pay us the value of the tritanium at the rate the corp purchases it from members and then feel free to take the ship. Please pay the funds into the Ship Program wallet with its reason being "Ship Name/Type" and drop a mail onto the MAADI Ship mailing list to say what you took, this will help in my basic administration of the program. BPC's of the more popular cruisers and BPO's of medium sized modules to be purchased.  I'd like to always have 5 of each popular type in stock.

Trit cost:
Moa 15 (1,926,815.62),
Caracal 10 (1,071,819.94),
Blackbird (856,557.50),
Omen (1,071,499.97),
Vexor (1,072,390.18),
Rupture 10 (1,569,845.38),
Bellicose 5x15 (856,557.50),
Stabber (1,071,518.98),
Thorax 15 (1,826,789.18)
Maller (2.069,565.70),
Augoror (713,848.61),
Osprey (712,419.84),
Exequror (713,848.61),
Scythe (713,851.78),
Celestis (856,557.50),
Arbitrator (856,528.99).

As with the smaller ships. Insure them and you'll get a return on their loss that will be a profit.

=====================================

T1 Battlecruisers: Tritanium Value Only
Purchases of BPC's for the Ferox, Hurricane, Brutix, Myrmidon, Prophecy & Harbinger will be undertaken (We own a Drake BPO already and are in the process of selling copies from it - I know Ive been lax here :D).  Members will have to request a BC of their choice made when it is needed using the build request mailing list.  Once it is done, deposit the Tritanium Value in the Ship Program wallet and send a mail on the mailing list saying you have taken it from the hangar.  Modules for these ships will be provided in the corp hangar free, as they can come from mission nights and the very cheap BPO's we'll be sourcing for them.

Ferox 15 (5,365,476.86),
Drake (8,517.937.82),
Brutix (6,636,551.33),
Myrmidon 15 (10,054,262.59),
Prophecy (7,925,873.47),
Harbinger 15 (12,175,320.96),
Hurricane (9,165,093.70),
Cyclone (5,657,461.92).

As with the smaller ships. Insure them and you should get a return on their loss that will be a profit.

=====================================

T1 Battleships: Corp Build Price
Corp will buy BPC's of ships we use.  Corp will sell requested builds to members at the price it costs us to build them. With funds for these ships going back into the Ship Program wallet. Wont keep any on hand until such time as we have mucho minerals coming in to support all projects. T1 gear BPO's or BPC's (Dependant on BPO cost) will be looked for and we will try to provide a good cross section of required T1 gear for these ships.

Rokh 10
Dominix 10


As with the smaller ships. Insure them and you should get a return on their loss that will be a profit.

=====================================

Corp Mission Nights: I'd like to use the loot from these to replenish corp hangar module stocks when they get low - basically the corp takes them; and when we dont need them they get refined and the corp will continue to purchase the resultant minerals. All salvage from Mission Nights just goes right to the corp at no cost, it will increase our stocks at little cost to ourselves and allow for an internal rig program to be developed.

=====================================

PVP Loot: This should be passed to the corp and sold on the market, with proceeds going into the Ship Program wallet. However, should people lose a ship during a roam that insurance does not fully cover, then the sale proceeds will be split amongst all ship losses, to further lessen the blow from this loss. This will primarily affect T2 flying pilots or those fitting a disproportinate amount of T2 gear to their T1 ships.

=====================================

T2 Ships: As many of us either do not fly these or would prefer not to in combat situations, I havent yet thought up a scheme for these, however Red/Rubino has a system in mind, that I am looking at as a means to supply T2 ships to those who require them.  Suffice to say an insurance based program for these is out, so it may fall to a subsidised purchase, but time will tell (that and the fact T2 ships are trending UP in price right now due to market behaviour following the POS exploit and the Delve situation).

=====================================

T2 gear for ships: Something for the future, but my mind is running an idea of basically once a month or so using 100mill from the fund to purchase stocks of the most commonly used T2 modules and adding them to our hangar for fits.  Obviously fitting a T1 ship with T2 gear starts to soon negate the insurance benefits, but we'll cross that river when we get there.


=====================================

RED: BPO
GREEN: BPC

=====================================

DISCUSS HERE
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 12:26:53 PM by Warcold »
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 12:21:40 PM »
Unlocked this topic for the time being, as this program never got officially de-activated (till now) and I would like to re-discus the viability of this program.
This topic came back to mind when some of us were discussing ingame what to do with our minerals. We could build carriers and make MOAR isk, and/or we could build ships for pvp, giving our members easy (and cheaper) access to ships to have blown up. This topic obviously covers the 2nd option.

I think it would be a good idea to have (some of) our mins turned into ships, as it will give yet another incentive to go out and pvp.
One of the problems is that we already have the insurance-program in place now and offering the 2 programs at the same time will be a big isk sink for MAADI. A solution would be to either drop this program or to overhaul this program.
One possible way to overhaul this program would be to have ships available to members at mineral cost (as per Hrod's excel sheet). This will mean ppl can buy ships cheaper than marketprice, which is good.
However... IMO it also has a drawback: it will either mean that miners wont make use of this program, or that miners have to buy 'their own' minerals back at 1.11 times the price they sold it for, which IMO is not the ideal situation.
So I was wondering if you had a more elegant idea of reinstating this program alongside the current insurance-reimbursement program.

Or should this program be eliminated?
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

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The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline Jarkko

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 12:38:53 PM »
IMO it also has a drawback: it will either mean that miners wont make use of this program, or that miners have to buy 'their own' minerals back at 1.11 times the price they sold it for, which IMO is not the ideal situation.
If the miners sold their minerals on the open market and bought the ships from open market, what would the multiplier be then?

Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 01:09:09 PM »
depends on the ship, but still...
it's just weird that you basically buy your own mins back, where a (e.g.) missioneer doesnt.

I guess this issue was always there, also with the previous program, but now it's even more on the surface... just thought i'd raise the issue...
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline peo

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 02:09:09 PM »
How do they buy it back at 1.11 times the cost??

Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 02:11:25 PM »
Sell minerals for .9*marketprice, buy ship for 1.0*marketprice (=10/9*sellprice)
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline peo

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 02:40:58 PM »
Well price should be based on corp buy price imo if we do it.

Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 02:56:08 PM »
basing on corp market price will still offer corp some profit, while still offering buyers a good deal

well, bar miners that is (still good, but less)
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline Mangala

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 02:32:43 AM »
Miners - in most cases - are alts or a mains offshot/early skills - so shouldnt affect us too much.

Anyways, do whatever works for you folks best - its always been your corp Im just the shouty guy :)  I'll support you all in any decision re-ships just as long as I can keep using salvage as my own personal rig stash!
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk."


Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 07:13:35 AM »
found em! yay!

thx
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166

Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 11:47:40 AM »
Hrod and I have been talking about this program and the insurance program we have in place.
iirc this is what we came up with:

(PLAN: NOT IMPLEMENTED YET!)
- T1 frigs, destroyers and cruisers are free. These will be built by our industrialists and will be available at our main station (Kas for now). Insurance program does not apply.
- T1 Battlecruisers and Battleships will be available on request. (The price will be mineral marketprice (as per Hrod's sheet) (or members can supply their own minerals (as per BPO, 'perfect' ammounts))??? TBC). (Pricetags in both minerals and isk will be implemented in the excel sheet). Insurance program will apply.
- For the BCs that are used on a regular basis BPOs could be acquired by MAADI (200-300M/BPO) and researched by KASEI. For BSs BPCs will be acquired for now.

-> MAADI will make some profit of the BC/BS builds (10% of total price), but members can buy the ships for below market (ship-)price, so both parties profit. This profit will prolly flow straight into the frig-cruiser 'losses'. The rest of the isk (out)flow for builds and insurance will be funded through POS-income.
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166

Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 11:57:27 AM »
Pros:
- Free lower end ships for our members
- Cheaper higher end (BC/BS) ships for our members
- We have a stock of pvp ships in-house. No more 15 jumps or more to get ships.
- We have a use for our minerals, keep them flowing!
- Our builders can make use of their hard-earned skills.
- Less hassle paying out insurance for the lower end ships.
- Higher end insurances are kept in place.

Cons:
- The builders are expected to keep delivering. We will depend on them to keep stock up.
- Same goes for miners.
- High end mins may need to be purchased on the market.
- Calculating prices for BCs and BSs may be a hassle, especially when we use BPCs for which ME will no doubt vary.
- Hard to keep track of who pays what, as ppl can just as well nick BCs/BSs from hangar. Some trust and honesty is required.
- Investment for the BC BPOs will be 500M minimum (Hurricane and Harbinger I guess, maybe more)
- We might need someone to keep track of the internal logistics: mineral stock, ship stock, payments.
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


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Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2010, 12:00:32 PM »
We can use all the input/ideas we can get on the above two posts. (Hrod, I did this from top off my head and implemented some extra ideas, so plz slap my wrist for any discrepancies).

Even if you are not a miner/builder and/or think you don't know much about this issue, we would like all the input we can get.
Stupid questions don't exist, just stupid answers, etc.
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166

Offline Jarkko

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 12:38:52 PM »
Sounds good to me. I need to get my mining up and running again, been slacking so far...

Offline Warcold

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Re: NOT ACTIVE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE: Ship Program: Combat (PVP/Missions)
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2010, 01:42:34 PM »
dont worry, we got quite a buffer  ;)
'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.'

'We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.
The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.'


http://warthunder.com/en/registration?r=userinvite_3240166