Author Topic: Phoenix Gate  (Read 2626 times)

Offline Axenar

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Phoenix Gate
« on: October 09, 2008, 07:19:04 AM »
So anyone played this scenario and had it end by score before the timer runs out?

So far played it umpteen times and it always goes down to the clock ticking down.

Have to say I only play defensive being an Engi as I see it better to defend with my turret and ability to buff the damage from the seige engines.

But so far I've only played one game where I saw any strategy from the enemy (being defensive I've never even been across the river) where they rushed the head on with the majority meanwhile a smaller group slipped in the side and made off with the flag.

Every other game though they just seem to try a head on run past the 3 war machines and pretty much get toasted, or get the flag and are toasted as they leave. Makes me wonder if Order are just as bad. Though to be fair I've been on the winning side more times than not in this scenario.

Once I hit level 17 and can buy instant build turrets from my mastery I'll start going on the offensive as I can throw up turrets whereever needed. I may even go back to trying Stonetroll too.

Anyway just wondered what other folks experience was.

Offline Angelor

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 07:26:06 AM »
This is a great scenario for a witch hunter- even better if theres 2 of you! Stealth to flag and wait until theres only one or two defending then kill them and run like hell with the flag!

I dont run directly back though over the bridge I take a much longer route which avoids a lot of destro, and you can get support sometimes if you can type coming in west or something similar.

The scenario really does depend on getting the balance of attack and defend right and having 2/3 people that will go out there and get the flag.

Offline Jarkko

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 07:39:47 AM »
This is an easy and rewarding scenario when:
a) Most on your side stay on defend
b) A couple flanks to the opposite flag and runs it home

Many people seem to think the bridge is the best place to fight. It is not :)  You come under enemy ballista fire, and it is deadly.

On my WP I don't know how many times I did solo or duo-run/ride to the enemy flag and carry it alone home. Sometimes it was just silly, ride there, get flag, run home, ride back, get flag etc etc, without ever getting hampered by destruction.

The only times I lost when there were too many Order on the flank-run, seeing too few stay behind to defend the own flag. Key to victory is a solid defense, and somebody has to make the run for the flag :)

Offline Pythias

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 08:57:17 AM »
I think i've won and lost one or two before timeout. I've been typing "fight AT the flag, not SOMEWHERE NEAR the flag and centrainly NOT near the bridge" so much that my fingers hurt ... The thing is, you need to stay very close to the flag and preferably turned towards the flag, to be able to react quickly, hit and interrupt anyone trying to get it. Balistas / catapults are mere decoys, if ppl start to man them you're going to lose most of the time.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 09:32:23 AM »
Actually if you have some solid healers (which my teams have, most of the time *cough*) ;) - it doesn't matter much where you fight, as long as you're sure you're keeping at least as many destros occupied as you committed yourself. The trick is to make sure your runner(s) have enough space to grab that banner and leg it.

So far I've encountered 3 possible scenarios:
1: Defense at your own flag.
The surest option, but funnily enough I don't like it much myself. Reason for this is that you don't control any of the map, making it a long walk for your own runners

2. A slagfest in midfield.
Happens most of the time. When you're healing-light make sure you're on your side of the bridge, so that you're out of range of the bolt throwers.

3. (When you're stronger than the enemy:) pin them on their own base! Drawback here is that actually grabbing the flag will be more difficult due to AOE.
Also, their runners may grab your flag and try to run it. However, if your team really is stronger, you'll be able to keep 90% of their team on of near their respawn.
One or two dedicated defenders on your own flag will dissue any enemy from trying to get it, and with so many of your own team grabbing at the destro flag it will eventually be picked up - and they should have a free run back to home base after that!

Needless to say, I prefer 3 myself. However, as healer, I liked 2 better than 1 - imho 2. is only the "stupid" option for the team committing most resources to the melee!
"There is no Planet B." (Seen on a banner at Copenhagen)
Quoted for brilliance.

Offline Jarkko

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 09:35:45 AM »
Balistas / catapults are mere decoys, if ppl start to man them you're going to lose most of the time.
I disagree with that :)  Some of the most crushing victories I have seen did happen when the ballistas were manned. Sure, it needs Destro to rush up the middle bridge, and melee happily charge towards the flag. It however leaves the ranged DPSers and ranged healers right there in front of the ballistas. And for what ever reason, people seem to ignore the person manning the ballista :)  Anyway, what happens is that the support either dies or falls back, with the melee thus being dead-meat walking around for a few seconds :)

Manning the ballistas is not the win-all tactics, but when the opponent allows it, it is one of the brighter things to do :)

Offline Pythias

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 10:18:14 AM »
Quote from: Jarkko
Manning the ballistas is not the win-all tactics, but when the opponent allows it, it is one of the brighter things to do :)
Well, agree, my previous statement was too cathegoric ... in my personal experience, destro zergs usually came from sides. With half of order team uselessly positioned near the bridge, you're guaranteed to be overwhelmed. Honestly, i prefer to say "leave ballistas" bcs smart ppl know to do the contrary if the conditions are right. But, are PuGs smart, on average?

Offline Peter

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 11:16:46 AM »
I find the bolt throwers to be a small boost in general but the repeater to be deadly. Manning the repeater you can hit anybody from pretty far on their side of the bridge to pretty close to your own flag and it is an AOE effect that hits everybody who is, at 1280-1024 on 19" monitor, within approximately 2.5-3cm distance from the red target at the point in time you choose to fire. You can fire it every 2-3 seconds or so. This means that given even minimal friendly opposition to tie up a zerg, you can often hit 3-4 enemies at the same time doing 150-400 damage to each depending on their armour, and practically nobody takes the time to try shooting down the guy standing with the repeater.

As a lowlevel archmage, I have tried being #1 in damage dealt in a zerg game beating out higher level sorcerers and bright wizards, simply through massacring people as they fight the opposition while ignoring the elf with the repeater.... and when the enemy breaks and tries to retreat over the bridge and all the way home, they are being bombarded all the time; some convenient trees prevent you from actually seeing what you are targeting, but you can see the target on the minimap and given knowledge of approximately how fast people move, it is not hard to keep on hitting them when they are out of view, likewise, if you see some allies standing on our side of the bridge throwing spells at unseen opponents, it is a pretty good bet that sending a salvo at the middle of the bridge will hit something. :D

This isn't a way to win the game through accomplishing the objectives, but it is really, really, good for winning on kill points in the end or stalling enemy zergs. The only negative thing is that I find it practically impossible to get back to the repeater once I have moved down, so it is a full time occupation rather than one you can return to once the enemy starts pressing.

...Unfortunately, I have also seen (in one of the few times I didn't go repeater crazy :D) order get slaughtered the same way while going for the chaos flag up the middle. Don't EVER stay clumped up while within the range of the defensive siege weapon - it just does not pay if the others have anybody as triggerhappy as me at the controls. :)



Offline Axenar

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 12:43:48 PM »
Forgot to say I also like the fact that the siege weapons dont need you to judge where a character is going to be when the shot lands, it's based on when you fire. I've experimented and it's definately where the red cross was when you hit fire. Ideal for the repeater especially cos it takes ages for the bolts to actually land.

I do love pasting all thier healers and ranged DPS guys with it and if they go out of sight on the bridge and there's nothing else to target fire anyway, generally find I catch them all standing about or fighting there even though I cant see them.

Add in my siege engine damage buff and I can do some serious injury to a lot of the non tank boys, tanks I generally target last if there's nothing else to go for or to help polish one off if he's clearly low health.

Think this is my fave T2 scenario now though. Even if it does go agaisnt my Dwarf nature to fight with Elf weapons.

Offline Desi

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Re: Phoenix Gate
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 02:33:25 PM »
Let's do a premade focusing on Phoenix Gate soon and try this stuff out. It'll be a relief to play with a strategy.