Author Topic: Tor Anroc - Strategy  (Read 2437 times)

Offline Envicta

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Tor Anroc - Strategy
« on: October 08, 2008, 02:52:16 PM »

Whether you love it or hate it,     at some point everyone is going to end up in "Tor Anroc" and so I was interesting in what people think the overall best strategy is.

In my opinion,   I think where Order go wrong for the majority of the time,    is that we retreat back to our base.

I can see the logic, where the closer you are to our rez-point the quicker reinforcements can support us..

However 2 really big issues with that

1.  The biggy,    you lose that bauble and suddenly you've got a whole load of Destruction between you and that bauble.

2.  Getting pinned into a corner invites AE attacks and Knockbacks = Bad

So where do I suggest?    I think we should turtle on top of the mount (Bauble rez point) with the Bauble carrier slightly behind us..       

Due to the cliff-type edge,  you eliminate the LoS for AE attacks (from Ranged DPS).

Unfortunately you're probably putting yourself in a worst position for Knockbacks,  but I really don't see a solution where we can ever avoid that.

Order manage a similar type thing (minus the lava) in the lost temple scenario and we do a fantastic job of turtling!

Note:    is there anywhere in TA where you can put your back to a wall?   If so,  potentially you can make the Bauble-carrier immune to Knockbacks?    I can only think of 2 places,    each being in the separate bases.

Additionally to this,   if you don't have the bauble then PACE is the real killer weapon.. 

I can't get over what an impact you can have on the enemy if they feel you're approaching too quickly,    they really do feel the only option is to retreat..          So even if we're putting ourselves in a potentially suicidal position,  we need that charge...       Put them on the back leg and keep forcing them back....     Eventually you'll topple them..

Note:    Taken from an intelligent lady yesterday,   if you ever did manage to get into there base where they were Turtling and capture the Bauble,    immediately jump into the lava and kill yourself,  returning the bauble to the centre position!!

Feedback and comments welcome!     

Invicta








Offline Torgal

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 08:00:33 AM »
I dislike fights on top of the volcano with a passion because that LOS over the lip makes healing impossible. It's also constantly pelted with exploding rocks, which doesn't help matters. Lastly, it's as easy as pie to get KB'd off the top of it (most other areas there's places you can stand to mitigate your chance of ending up in lava).

Fully agree with retreating (or not, as the case may be). It's a losing tactic, and one that should only be resorted to when you're already on the back foot. Momentum is everything in TA (could say the same for any zerg type scenario), more often than not if you are the side advancing on the other side, you will be scoring more kills than they are. Reasons being, it's hard as hell (nigh impossible) to dps when you're running away, and it's slightly less hard but still difficult, to heal whilst running away. It's difficult to regroup when you have reached your muster point (people tend to just keep running).

I do not think that people realise that possession of the bauble in itself does not score you points (in any great number at least, I do not think it awards any), and this is the issue which causes people to play the game incorrectly.

Much better in my opinion to go on the offense when you have the bauble. Posessing it means that you score more for enemy kills for the duration, so why not capitalise on that. Let's face it, you're going to lose the damn thing sooner or later, and there's a good chance the enemy side will snatch it. If you look at it like that, you have a limited time holding the bauble, therefore it's infinitely better for your if you have been rolling them to the best of your ability, rather than legging it back to your half during which time you're not scoring kills. Keeping the enemy dead also increases the chance of retaining possession of the bauble, letting them zerg you in your base is just asking for trouble.

It's also a pussy thing to do.

Order Torgal / Allein / Iapetus / Mellir / Ganymede
Destruction Stikklebrix / Mimas

"Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit"

Offline Pythias

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 08:41:34 AM »
Quote from: Torgal
I do not think that people realise that possession of the bauble in itself does not score you points (in any great number at least, I do not think it awards any), and this is the issue which causes people to play the game incorrectly.
This. So many ppl fail to read the text on the loading screen ...  :-[

I think retreating back to the base with bauble is the right thing to do if you need to re-group and/or several ppl are dead and you're outnumbered in the centre. However, fully agree with Torgal it's necessary to be offensive afterwards and push destro back. Optimal place is the area below the crater on destro side - you are close to bauble spawn point, there is some space there for maneuvering, you can block destro since the bridge from their spawn point is rather narrow and fortunately not many destro are smart enough to take a side route and get into your back.

TA suffers from relatively low amount of melee types on Order side. White Lions are way less popular than Marauders. Also, not sure, but it seems that destro has generally more classes with knock-back?

Offline Envicta

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 08:44:21 AM »
I was being very selfish when considering that strategy from a WP's point of view..       I don't need LoS for my group heals to work, so I can fully understand your point...

I also 100% agree and should of mentioned how the bauble does work..

I will admit that I also believed the bauble granted periodic points until I read a forum-post a few weeks back that explained how it really worked.     I don't believe the bauble grants you any points at all for holding it.

Also I believe losing the bauble grants the team a large amount of points, so you shouldnt be to cocky!

As far as i'm aware you are granted extra points for every kill that the bauble holder is somehow involved with..  

Offensive is definitely the way to go,      even if you start struggling when you're in the middle of there base...    Worst case scenario is that you lose the Bauble and its lost,  meaning you own the entire field, so its easy to get back....

On a side-note,   I have never lost a TA when i've got a suicidal Ironbreaker in my team.... the more the merrier..    

The brave little fella's make fantastic charge runs,  putting themselves in ridiculous odds...  

All we need is for everyone else to follow and the enemy will retreat...

PS.    Running at 5% health means you'll die,     so be a man...  keep fighting..    Dont run :)

Invicta




Offline Torgal

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 04:08:23 PM »
Just a followup, I actually read the text on the loading screen last night, and it does specifically mention that holding the bauble grants you points over time. I still think all our points stand, but it is interesting to know given what I previously believed to be true.

Order Torgal / Allein / Iapetus / Mellir / Ganymede
Destruction Stikklebrix / Mimas

"Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit"

Offline Envicta

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 07:48:50 PM »
I noticed that the other day too and I'll petition to mystic to have it removed, regardless if it's true!

I have been spamming in scenario chat this week to reiterate the truth, because I can't stand people standing so far back with the bauble.

However a 2 new hates, players who wait on volcano for a bauble drop and people who stand on islands after being KB'd expecting some kind of divine intervention!!

I'm also getting a lot of stick for my near suicidal WP runs, it's no ego or act of stupidity, it's a leap of faith, hoping I can spur some courage in the cowardish ranks of order!

I love the guild runs, debaser is always found in the middle of destruction ranks playing golf and that makes such a huge difference to the way both teams act.

I'm not promoting suicide, but bomb runs is the key to advancing in my opinion

Just wish order would get some big hairy balls!!

PS.  Anyone else noticed you can now jump thru the lava easier after patch?  you seem to jump forward or so.. 

Envicta
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 09:47:53 AM by Envicta »




Offline Pythias

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 08:35:25 AM »
Well, while i understand that WP's place is in the front line, charging into destro group alone means you'll be burned down pretty quickly, scoring points for destro. It makes much more sense if at least 3 ppl charge simulatenously. Unfortunately that happens rarely. It's partly cowardice, partly because there are scenarios where you can hardly find 3 heavy melee (tanks + WPs + WLs) on order side in total. SWs, WHs and BWs all around plus some healers and engineers.

Gotta love guild groups.

Offline Jarkko

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 09:53:24 AM »
I agree with both Pythias and Envicta. Somebody *needs* to lead the charge, but a kamikaze nets points only to the opposition. It is better to charge with more than one, but in PUGs it can be difficult. If there is a tank around to lead the charge, it is a good thing to tag along as a WP. It is just amazing how people join the zerg when they see for example an IB and WP charge together.

Then again, I have several times been leading the charge on my WP, especially if I have been lucky enough to recieve Guard. However, I do not rush into the middle of opponents unless I see others to join. Usually it is enough to rush forwards and pull back, and you'll see the over-eager hostile melee go for the "squishy" healer that I am. This needs there to be enough healing on my side, else I'll go splat no matter what.

Offline Torgal

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 12:32:16 PM »
One important thing : if you're heading a charge solo/duo - don't do it over the lip of the volcano, cause damn there's no better place on that map to get dead since you'll immediately lose LOS to every other member of your team. The same goes for charging up one side, or down the other (though charging down is much preferable).

Incidently, holding the bauble awards 3 points every 3 seconds. Counted it saturday during a moment of quiet between the two sides in a game. Haven't counted the difference in points awarded for a kill whilst holding/not holding.

Order Torgal / Allein / Iapetus / Mellir / Ganymede
Destruction Stikklebrix / Mimas

"Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit"

Offline Envicta

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Re: Tor Anroc - Strategy
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 03:38:35 PM »
Sorry,  I should reword what I originally said...

What I wanted to get across was that its necessary for a WP to lead assaults WHEN and ONLY WHEN a tank is not available or willing to do so..

Also when I said "bomb run",   I meant running up to the enemy line,   using Smite,   powering up my group shield and hitting the first target once or twice..      then retreating back immediately..            I then have to madly heal myself as every single destruction caster has now targetted me and I'm Dotted to the eyeballs..          However it is very rare that I will die from this...       and generally it means the rest of Order have now gained a few feet and pushed Destruction back..

Sometimes though, you just need a little push to build momentum and then BOOM!   the Order assault slaughters all in its path!!  RAAAAR!!

So in summary:     Just give WP's a break,    we're not suicidal,  we're only doing it because out of all the Non-Tank classes,  we have the best survival.

Envicta.

Minor moan:     I've seem some optimistic people in TA make comments like "Can some people guard bauble holder", or "a couple of people should go right"..      Never in a MMORPG, especially a PVP orientated one have I ever seen people organise themselves around the idea of "some" or "couple"..     It just doesnt happen..        My suggestion if you really want to micro-manage your team is to refer to people by there name or at least by there class, otherwise just save your breath :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 03:42:39 PM by Envicta »